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Like Adam
12-15-2008, 10:31 AM
Post: #1
Like Adam
Does the miraculous birth of Jesus make him a God or a "begotten" son of God? No! says the Holy Quran:

"The similitude of Jesus before Allah (God) is that of Adam; He created him from dust then said to him: 'Be', and he was." (3:59)

Yusuf Ali, comments in his notes in the Quran translation:

"After a description of the high position which Jesus occupies as a prophet in the preceding verses we have a repudiation of the dogma that he was God, or the son of God, or any thing more than man. If it is said that he was born without a human father, Adam was also so born. Indeed Adam was born without either a human father or mother. As far as our physical bodies are concerned they are mere dust.

In God's sight Jesus was as dust just as Adam was or humanity is. The greatness of Jesus arose from the divine command 'Be': for after that he was more than dust a great spiritual leader and teacher"

The logic of it is that, if being born without a male parent entitles Jesus to being equated with God, then, Adam would have a greater right to such honor, and this no Christian would readily concede. Thus, the Muslim is made to repudiate the Christian blasphemy.

Further, if the Christian splits hairs by arguing that Adam was "created" from the dust of the ground, whereas Jesus was immaculately "begotten" in the womb of Mary, then let us remind him that, even according to his own false standards, there is yet another person greater than Jesus, in his own Bible . Who is this superman?

Paul's Innovation

"For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God... Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life..." (Hebrews 7:1,3)

Here is a candidate for Divinity itself, for only God Almighty could possess these qualities.
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12-15-2008, 04:04 PM (This post was last modified: 12-15-2008 04:06 PM by Anthem.)
Post: #2
RE: Like Adam
sesame Wrote:Does the miraculous birth of Jesus make him a God or a "begotten" son of God? No! says the Holy Quran:

"The similitude of Jesus before Allah (God) is that of Adam; He created him from dust then said to him: 'Be', and he was." (3:59)

Yusuf Ali, comments in his notes in the Quran translation:

"After a description of the high position which Jesus occupies as a prophet in the preceding verses we have a repudiation of the dogma that he was God, or the son of God, or any thing more than man. If it is said that he was born without a human father, Adam was also so born. Indeed Adam was born without either a human father or mother. As far as our physical bodies are concerned they are mere dust.

In God's sight Jesus was as dust just as Adam was or humanity is. The greatness of Jesus arose from the divine command 'Be': for after that he was more than dust a great spiritual leader and teacher"

The logic of it is that, if being born without a male parent entitles Jesus to being equated with God, then, Adam would have a greater right to such honor, and this no Christian would readily concede. Thus, the Muslim is made to repudiate the Christian blasphemy.

Further, if the Christian splits hairs by arguing that Adam was "created" from the dust of the ground, whereas Jesus was immaculately "begotten" in the womb of Mary, then let us remind him that, even according to his own false standards, there is yet another person greater than Jesus, in his own Bible . Who is this superman?

Paul's Innovation

"For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God... Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life..." (Hebrews 7:1,3)

Here is a candidate for Divinity itself, for only God Almighty could possess these qualities.
Hi sesame,
I understand why you believe the things you do, and I will try to explain what I believe. I'm one of those people who believe that Jesus is God. I believe in the miracle that Christ was born to a virgin girl. And I believe God was present in Christ. God appeared in many forms in the past. Adam and Eve heard God walking in the garden after they had sinned. God is described as the Angel of the Lord when He talked to Hagar, and He told her that He would multiply her descendants exceedingly. He talked to Moses in a burning bush. He appeared in a thick cloud. There are many other occasions that God has appeared to man in different forms.
“For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God... Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life”.
I believe you are right that Melchisedec is a candidate for Divinity itself, for only God Almighty could possess these qualities. And I believe this was another appearance of God.
It isn’t hard for me to accept that a man who could do the miracles that Jesus did was actually an appearance of God. He was born of a virgin, and His whole life proclaimed His greatness. You know of His many miracles. There was never a man like Him. He chose to allow Himself to be nailed to that cross. He did die, but in three days He rose from the dead. God cannot die, but He could experience death through Jesus who willingly gave His life for us. Its wonderful believing that God would do something like that. I love being able to believe that God can understand any suffering I may ever endure. God can’t die, but He experienced death through Christ, and that is the most wonderful thing I can think of. To think that God became man and experienced suffering gives me hope that He can understand my suffering. God is not a man, but He can use any form He chooses to reveal Himself to men. I love being a Christian.
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12-17-2008, 08:44 AM
Post: #3
RE: Like Adam
Paul finds the crucifixion of Jesus in Isaiah 53 and his resurrection on the third day in Jonah 1:17, Hosea 6:2 and II Kings 20:5. Paul then tells his audience that he "did not receive it from any man nor was taught it," rather he got it from Jesus (Gal 1:11-12). However, the truth will always be there; Paul did not get it from Jesus, he simply got it from his own imagination during his attempt to "prophesy."

PAUL CONSTANTLY ADVISED OTHERS TO USE THEIR IMAGINATION AND PROPHESIZE


1 Corinthians 12:7-10

Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:28

And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:1,5

Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues but I would rather have you prophesy.
Romans 12:6

We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith.
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12-18-2008, 12:35 AM
Post: #4
RE: Like Adam
Quote:Paul finds the crucifixion of Jesus in Isaiah 53 and his resurrection on the third day in Jonah 1:17, Hosea 6:2 and II Kings 20:5

A lot of the first Christians, Paul probably among them, were martyred for their beliefs. How many people do you know who go to their deaths for something they know to be a complete fabrication?
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12-18-2008, 01:13 AM (This post was last modified: 12-18-2008 01:19 AM by clarence clutterbuck.)
Post: #5
RE: Like Adam
Sesame:

I notice that your posts are culled from unaccredited sources rather than representing your own thoughts expressed in your own words. Slightly dishonest I would say. That guy ahmetsecer posts lots of twaddle from the Muslim creationist cretin, Harun Yahya but he at least makes his sources clear by providing links.

http://jp.englishbaby.com/forum/LifeTalk/thread/236580
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12-18-2008, 03:21 AM
Post: #6
RE: Like Adam
anglican,
"How many people do you know who go to their deaths for something they know to be a complete fabrication?"
the answer RASPOTEEN for example....and ur evidence dosen't go with logic balance
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12-19-2008, 02:51 PM
Post: #7
RE: Like Adam
Anglican Wrote:
Quote:Paul finds the crucifixion of Jesus in Isaiah 53 and his resurrection on the third day in Jonah 1:17, Hosea 6:2 and II Kings 20:5

A lot of the first Christians, Paul probably among them, were martyred for their beliefs. How many people do you know who go to their deaths for something they know to be a complete fabrication?

CRAZY PEOPLE!
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12-23-2008, 02:08 AM
Post: #8
RE: Like Adam
ooh sane man!
then tell me how a Father has 10 children and he let the 9th to kill the purist one (who only obey him) then to forgive them by this way.....
CRAZY THOUGHT!!!!!.....
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12-23-2008, 02:51 AM
Post: #9
RE: Like Adam
God is spirit,do we all agree with this.?each human has a spirit,do we still agree.?now God was with Jesus,he had overcome evil ,i with the father and the father with me.in Genesis God says they will be like us.plural .there are lots of things we don,t understand yet,but we need to ask in prayer.now we all do this,even athiests.

Good evil salvation
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12-23-2008, 03:41 AM (This post was last modified: 12-23-2008 03:44 AM by sesame.)
Post: #10
RE: Like Adam
"God is spirit,do we all agree with this.?"

God describe Himself in this verse:
"The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He hath made for you pairs of yourselves, and of the cattle also pairs, whereby He multiplieth you. Naught is as His likeness; and He is the Hearer, the Seer. (42:11)"...
and in another surah He said:
"[color]Say: He is Allah, the One! (1) Allah, the eternally Besought of all! (2) He begetteth not nor was begotten. (3) And there is none comparable unto Him. (4)" {112}"
this is the LORD who created Jesus and u and Adam....
Allah with all prophets with his help not with His being ..Allah will be with u if u r with Him ,
So Allah was with Jesus ( his prophet) , He saved him from crucifying ( read the previous verse well) as HE did with Moses when He saved him and the beleivers from pharoah by splitting the sea to him to cross and drawn the disbelievers of old egyptions
Allah said in Quran:
"[color]And when the two hosts saw each other, those with Moses said: Lo! we are indeed caught. (61) He said: Nay, verily! for lo! my Lord is with me. He will guide me. (62) Then We inspired Moses, saying: Smite the sea with thy staff. And it parted, and each part was as a mountain vast. (63) Then brought We near the others to that place. (64) And We saved Moses and those with him, every one[/color]; (65) {62}"
do u notice the reply of Moses " with me"....
i hope i ve cleared to u what i want to say....
any explanation ..i'm with u
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