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Modern Theology
06-08-2009, 12:00 PM
Post: #1
Modern Theology
This comment is not really one for the atheists amongst us, since it presupposes a belief in God.

One of the most glaring differences between the biblical world view and the modern world view is that the biblical writers did not live at a time when theology could more properly be called anthropology. In their world we had a role to play in God's universe. In our world, God has a role assigned to him in our lives, and he had better stick to the script if he does not want to incur our displeasure.

It is common on this forum to find atheists making comments to the effect that, if God does exist, then he certainly behaves in no way they are prepared to approve of. Generally the theists tent to concur that is no way for their sovereign Lord to behave, and start making excuses for him.

Yet the foundational text of Christianity makes it perfectly clear that God pursues his sovereign purposes without reference to whether we like it or not.
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06-08-2009, 12:19 PM
Post: #2
RE: Modern Theology
I know I'm an atheist, but I'm not arguing anything here, just asking a follow-up question that I've always wondered about.

What qualities must a being have in order for us to trust their moral judgment over ours? Assuming that god is sovereign, and thus whatever god does is moral no matter what it is, and in fact defines what is moral . . . what are the qualities that give him that authority? It is simply because he has the raw power to force that will on us, or is it something else?
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06-08-2009, 01:30 PM
Post: #3
RE: Modern Theology
(06-08-2009 12:00 PM)Anglican Wrote:  ...In our world, God has a role assigned to him in our lives, and he had better stick to the script if he does not want to incur our displeasure...


We moderns can be funny folks sometimes, though probably we're not as different from the ancients as we suppose.

Quote:What sorrow awaits those who argue with their Creator.
Does a clay pot argue with its maker?
Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying,
"Stop, you’re doing it wrong!"
Does the pot exclaim,
"How clumsy can you be?" (Isaiah 45:9).


(06-08-2009 12:00 PM)Anglican Wrote:  ...God pursues his sovereign purposes without reference to whether we like it or not.

I'm not sure this is true in all respects, though certainly it is true in certain cases.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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06-08-2009, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 06-08-2009 02:53 PM by Anglican.)
Post: #4
RE: Modern Theology
(06-08-2009 12:19 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  I know I'm an atheist, but I'm not arguing anything here, just asking a follow-up question that I've always wondered about.

What qualities must a being have in order for us to trust their moral judgment over ours? Assuming that god is sovereign, and thus whatever god does is moral no matter what it is, and in fact defines what is moral . . . what are the qualities that give him that authority? It is simply because he has the raw power to force that will on us, or is it something else?

Being the creator of all that is gives has something to do with it. He owes us nothing, we owe him our very existence.
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06-08-2009, 02:56 PM
Post: #5
RE: Modern Theology
Wouldn't that imply that children also owe their parents unquestioning fealty as well, though?
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06-08-2009, 04:26 PM
Post: #6
RE: Modern Theology
(06-08-2009 02:56 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  Wouldn't that imply that children also owe their parents unquestioning fealty as well, though?

This isn't going to become a debate, but you can become independent of your parents. Your dependence upon God is absolute; he created and sustains the world you inhabit. You exist because he wills it, and, when he wills it, you will cease to exist; certainly in this world, and possibly for good.

Which of those two comes to pass depends upon his sovereign will, and upon nothing else.

If you don't like it, well you might just as well complain because the sky is the wrong shade of blue.
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06-08-2009, 05:57 PM
Post: #7
RE: Modern Theology
Do all the atheists here believe in the laws of probability? In other words, do you believe in the scientific method to prove whether something is probable or not? My hunch is yes.

In this computer age, we have mathematical laws that tell us whether a certain event is probable or not. If we throw five numbered cubes up in the air and let them fall into a guided straight line, the probability laws tell us the number of possible combinations we can get: 1 x 2 x 3 x 4 x 5 = 120 combinations. This probability diminishes fast when we increase the number of cubes. If we increase them by one, the number of combinations becomes Thus, the probability of obtaining any combination is 1 in 120, or 1/120, or 0.0086.1 x 2 x 3 x 4 x 5 x 6 = 720, and the probability of getting any combination diminishes to 1/720, 0.0014. Mathematicians, who are very exacting scientists, have agreed that the probability diminishes to "Zero" when we increase the number of cubes to 84. If we work with 84 cubes, the probability diminishes to 209 x 10 (raised to the power of) -50, or

0 . 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000209

Now, if absolute zero chance is defined at 84 dices, then DNA sequence of a simple one-celled organism could be perceived as thousands of dices. Thus, the probability of haphazard arrangement of nucleotides resulting in life is zero many, many times over.

You (atheists) accept the 'objective' scientific method and math probability laws for distinguishing what events in nature are probable and what are not. The evidence shows beyond a doubt that life could not have originated by chance. Why do object to results generated by the rules (scientific method) you (atheists) claim to uphold?

You can never disprove the existence of GOD, no matter how hard you try.
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06-09-2009, 06:06 AM (This post was last modified: 06-09-2009 08:08 AM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #8
RE: Modern Theology
Hey Submit,

Could you please stop spamming all of the threads with these same, duplicate posts? Try to choose the appropriate thread and then just post once, rather than in duplicate, triplicate, whatever.

Thanks for your cooperation.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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06-09-2009, 01:17 PM
Post: #9
RE: Modern Theology
Hey Stereophonic,

Different sections have different demographics of people. Christians post in Islam section, why can't I post something interesting in more than one thread? If my threads are rude and ignorant I can understand your concern, but just posting a link to a very interesting documentary, or posing a solid math-based argument that applies to all beliefs (atheist or religious) should not be viewed as a problem.

Peace



(06-09-2009 06:06 AM)Stereophonic Wrote:  Hey Submit,

Could you please stop spamming all of the threads with these same, duplicate posts? Try to choose the appropriate thread and then just post once, rather than in duplicate, triplicate, whatever.

Thanks for your cooperation.
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06-09-2009, 02:02 PM
Post: #10
RE: Modern Theology
(06-09-2009 01:17 PM)submitmj Wrote:  ...why can't I post something interesting in more than one thread? If my threads are rude and ignorant I can understand your concern...

The problem here is that your post has no bearing on the topic of this thread. This thread was started as a discussion of God's sovereignty, and the person who started the thread specifically stated that this thread "presupposes a belief in God."

Your post was not relevant to the topic of this thread; therefore it was rude. Please be more considerate in the future.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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