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Most Invalid Atheist Argument
02-04-2010, 06:57 PM
Post: #1
Most Invalid Atheist Argument
I'm not going to give you guys my opinion on what I think the most invalid argument is, I'm just wondering if you guys think any of your own arguments are invalid yourselves.
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02-04-2010, 08:19 PM
Post: #2
RE: Most Invalid Atheist Argument
(02-04-2010 06:57 PM)Holy Babylon Wrote:  I'm not going to give you guys my opinion on what I think the most invalid argument is, I'm just wondering if you guys think any of your own arguments are invalid yourselves.

Can I offer one I heard last week? Or is it atheist only?

Pawol anpil pa leve le mo
Lavi m nan men Bondye o sen
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02-04-2010, 10:57 PM
Post: #3
RE: Most Invalid Atheist Argument
Well, I'm always disappointed when atheists toss up the "X% of scientists and/or college graduates don't believe in God" as if that somehow validates such a viewpoint. It's a silly Argument from Authority, and not very convincing.

On the other hand, I always get a kick out of Christians trying to prove the Bible is correct by referring to the Bible. Circular arguments and all that.

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02-04-2010, 11:39 PM
Post: #4
RE: Most Invalid Atheist Argument
(02-04-2010 08:19 PM)Clementine Wrote:  
(02-04-2010 06:57 PM)Holy Babylon Wrote:  I'm not going to give you guys my opinion on what I think the most invalid argument is, I'm just wondering if you guys think any of your own arguments are invalid yourselves.

Can I offer one I heard last week? Or is it atheist only?

Let's hear it. I don't think anyone is really keeping score. Smile
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02-05-2010, 07:48 AM
Post: #5
RE: Most Invalid Atheist Argument
(02-04-2010 10:57 PM)MerryAtheist Wrote:  Well, I'm always disappointed when atheists toss up the "X% of scientists and/or college graduates don't believe in God" as if that somehow validates such a viewpoint. It's a silly Argument from Authority, and not very convincing.

On the other hand, I always get a kick out of Christians trying to prove the Bible is correct by referring to the Bible. Circular arguments and all that.

Well said.

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-05-2010, 07:59 AM
Post: #6
RE: Most Invalid Atheist Argument
The arguments that annoy me are the ones simply aimed at literalist interpretations of religion, and then the assumption that all religious people think like that. This often also has the kind of 'aren't they silly believing in stories' attitude, which is pretty patronising to people of faith who are very intelligent. Dawkins is especially guilty of this, and it's why I've not yet made it through the God Dellusion. Whilst these arguments are valid on a literalist level, in disproving fundamentalist ideas, they cannot be used against the whole of theology.

The other one is just trying to catch theists out in philosophical traps, as this does not prove anything either. As I've said before, scientists worked out that bumble bees, aerodynamically, cannot fly. Bumble bees empirically disprove this by flying. Just because you can logically use the problem of evil to flaw the concept of God as benevolent, that does not then prove God does not exist, but simply that the human theological concept is not sound. Simple logical symantics is no more proof against God than quoting religious texts to prove He does exist, in my opinion.
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02-05-2010, 09:14 AM
Post: #7
RE: Most Invalid Atheist Argument
(02-05-2010 07:59 AM)Zagreus Wrote:  ...As I've said before, scientists worked out that bumble bees, aerodynamically, cannot fly. Bumble bees empirically disprove this by flying...

The bumblebee story falls into the category of urban legend.

Quote:But how did it all start? Where does the story date back to? J.H.Mcmasters states that the story was prevalent in the German technical universities in the 1930's, starting with the students of the aerodynamicist Ludwig Prandtl at Göttingen. The story he tells is that a noted Swiss aerodynamicist, whom he does not name, was talking to a biologist at dinner. The biologist asked about the flight of bees and the Swiss gentleman did a back-of-the-napkin calculation of the kind I described. Assume a rigid, smooth wing and so on. Of course, he found that there was insufficient lift and went away to find out the correct answer. In the meantime the biologist put the word around, presumably to show that nature was greater than engineering, and the media picked it up. The truth, as now, wasn't newsworthy so a correction has never been publicised. The man on the Clapham omnibus, therefore, continues to tell me that science is a load of crock because it once proved that bumble bees cannot fly.

http://sssf.byethost31.com/physics1/13961.htm

Scroll down to the green text in the article for more than you ever wanted to know about how bumblebees fly.
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02-05-2010, 10:26 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2010 10:33 AM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #8
RE: Most Invalid Atheist Argument
Let me quote here the testimony from the Alcohol Anonymous Bible. Some agnostics who converted to spiritualism in Alcohol Anonymous, write,

"People of faith have a logical idea of what life is all about. Actually, we used to have no reasonable conception whatever. We used to amuse ourselves by cynically dissecting spiritual beliefs and practices when we might have observed that many spiritually minded persons of all races, colors, and creeds were demonstrating a degree of stability, happiness and usefulness which we should have sought ourselves." (Alcohoic Anonymous. Third edition. Page 49.)

The writers also explain what lead them to reject spiritual truths. They say that the reason for this was that instead of taking a balanced view and mostly focusing of the teachings they focused on the weaknesses of some of the religious people. They write,

"Instead, we looked at the human defects of these people, and sometimes used their shortcomings as a basis of wholesale condemnation. We talked of intolerance, while we were intolerant ourselves. We missed the reality and the beauty of the forest because we were diverted by the ugliness of some of its trees. We never gave the spiritual side of life a fair hearing." (Alcohoic Anonymous. Third edition. Page 50.)

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-05-2010, 10:41 AM
Post: #9
RE: Most Invalid Atheist Argument
After I got home from Haiti, my fiance had a work friend over who is very atheist. Militant would not be a bad way to put it. I don't care, my fiance is an atheist, and I respect atheists for the most part. Religion comes up, as I was talking about Haiti, and this guy says:

"Religion is bull****, because the Bible can't have happened."

So my fiance just gawks at him a second and goes. "You mean Christianity, right?"

He goes "No, I mean al religion, the Bible proves religion doesn't work."

He didn't seem to understand Christianity =/= all religion, even after we tried to get him to elaborate.

Pawol anpil pa leve le mo
Lavi m nan men Bondye o sen
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02-05-2010, 11:04 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2010 11:08 AM by Zagreus.)
Post: #10
RE: Most Invalid Atheist Argument
(02-05-2010 09:14 AM)Parousia Wrote:  
(02-05-2010 07:59 AM)Zagreus Wrote:  ...As I've said before, scientists worked out that bumble bees, aerodynamically, cannot fly. Bumble bees empirically disprove this by flying...

The bumblebee story falls into the category of urban legend.

Don't ruin it for me, that's a great story!!!

Anyway, that wasn't really the crux of my point. All I meant was that playing around with semantics doesn't prove anything, such as the existence or not of a deity.
(02-05-2010 10:41 AM)Clementine Wrote:  After I got home from Haiti, my fiance had a work friend over who is very atheist. Militant would not be a bad way to put it. I don't care, my fiance is an atheist, and I respect atheists for the most part. Religion comes up, as I was talking about Haiti, and this guy says:

"Religion is bull****, because the Bible can't have happened."

So my fiance just gawks at him a second and goes. "You mean Christianity, right?"

He goes "No, I mean al religion, the Bible proves religion doesn't work."

He didn't seem to understand Christianity =/= all religion, even after we tried to get him to elaborate.

This is exactly the thing I meant in the literalist criticisms comment, but I didn't make myself that clear. On another forum I got talking to someone whose sum up of religion was that they all believe in a beardy Santa in the sky, and that they can't have a w*** as that sends them to hell. This guy just kept taking things back to what fundamentalist Christians believe, and then tried to argue that Buddhism wasn't a religion, so go figure...
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