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My head is buzzing with questions...
10-18-2009, 04:45 PM
Post: #1
My head is buzzing with questions...
I was raised in an orthodox Jewish environment. Our 'Bible', other relevant Religious 'Documents' and man made 'fences' in-place, are all preventing transgression of our Religious Laws. Those upholding these Laws prevent the majority from thinking in any other direction. There is of course no space for 'Big Bang', or 'Flux-Theories', and so on... Captain Kirk (probably an infidel) has yet to land here!

Recent developments (e.g. DNA Mapping, Growing working organs in a glass bowl, the ability to change a skin-cell into a beating heart-cell, making objects invisible, Internet Phone Systems, new fuel techniques etc.), and other scientifically solid discoveries (like the finding of “Building Blocks for Life” – Amino Acids in a Comet (by lead researcher Jamie Elsila of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md.), space travel with the discovery of water on all planets, and the run against time to be extinct or to evolve into a Class I Civilization (Prof. Michio Kaku), raised yet another question in my head: "If God exists, then who is that "Being", what does He do today, and what does he want from me?"

I will try to explain my thinking and come to more questions:

• If God exists and ignited “the initial explosion” leading to an expanding place that we call universe or multiverse, and if God - by that action, initiated Creation, than we are actually saying that we evolved from stellar dust into what we resemble today.

• If I would consider myself belonging to the camp that claims that this universe is about 5.700 years old and that God the Almighty did not ignite this process – because it never happened, and that He did create material and life according to Genesis, than I am actually saying that science is not right, that one-and-one can't be two, or at least that the result is not definite or accurate.

• And finally if I would side with those that are looking for a link between 'Big Bang' scenarios, and Genesis, than I must doubt either one.

Can I still believe in God while convinced that we’ve evolved from bacteria? If so, doesn’t that eradicate most of the Biblical “Origin of Life”? To me it does, and it changes everything that I once was told about whom God is and what He could possibly want from ‘little’ me.

If God truly exists and He is the Omnipotent, the Creator of Everything then why is he depicted as a Police Officer in every Holy Book? Why is He and his Cronies standing on every corner, handing out Heavenly tickets for every little transgression made?

Does it really matter?
To me it does. The enormous unbalance in this world is frequently based on different religions, and my head is buzzing with questions that nobody actually dares to answer with anything else then: "You must believe because... bla bla bla - after life".

Is there an after-life? Because there is no scientific proof of there being a Soul, an Angle, a Devil, a God, a Heaven, so why then should I want to punish myself, restrict myself other than by Court Law? Why look upon infidels as lost souls, henceforth judge people on their religious believes, heritage etc. Why should I fear anymore for a ticket? What could possibly happen? Buzz Buzz Buzz...
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10-18-2009, 10:47 PM
Post: #2
RE: My head is buzzing with questions...
Well, you can "believe" in anything you like. Children believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. There are many people who need "belief" to make them feel good about themselves.

The question is whether you SHOULD believe. You seem fairly convinced already that science, not the bible, is more accurate. You seem fairly convinced already that attempts to reconcile the two fall flat. So really your question boils down to: should you believe in something that you know in your mind is not true?

It's a question everyone must ask for themselves. It can be hard being an atheist, and believing that the universe is a dark, cold, chaotic place where things do not happen for a reason. But it can also be extremely liberating. We forge our own purpose. We form connections with other living beings, and those connections of mortal love are more real than the mythical love of an impossible god. Personally I would rather deal with the occasionally depressing perspective that I am alone in an uncaring universe than shackle myself with feel-good fairy tales (especially when those feel-good fairy tales don't let me eat shrimp, and, you know... say women have to marry their rapists.)

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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10-19-2009, 06:17 AM
Post: #3
RE: My head is buzzing with questions...
(10-18-2009 10:47 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  The question is whether you SHOULD believe.

Since time-memorial and probably before mankind organized a Mammoth Race people 'feel' and dedicate the unexplained to a deity. So do renown scientists. I guess we won't get a definite answer, only through experience.

And yes, I believe very strong in science and that we've evolved. I studied Molecular biochemistry and Genetics and favor the common ancestor theory over Alice's dive into Wonderland.

I guess it will take time to shed of years of indoctrination, brainwashing, following the crowd etc. before I can feel secure with that slight change in my purpose on this planet.

Thx.
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10-19-2009, 09:54 AM
Post: #4
RE: My head is buzzing with questions...
But the mere fact that you acknowledge it as indoctrination is the first step. It does take time, but it is possible. Hold on to what your rational mind tells you must be true, and deny the part of you that wants to believe in fairies and unicorns. If you want, indulge that part of you with good books (may I recommend "The Last Unicorn" by Peter S. Beagle? One of my favorite novels.)

See if you can take a basic course on logic or rhetoric, so you can learn the propaganda techniques used to make theism seem rational and scientific when it isn't. Start analyzing your thoughts, opinions, and the opinions of others. You'll train yourself eventually.

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10-19-2009, 07:50 PM
Post: #5
RE: My head is buzzing with questions...
Science does sometimes appear to be at odds with religion. But it doesn't have to.

The Bible can be interpreted figuratively instead of literally. In this case, one can flexibly incorporate science into religion.

Also, many physicists argue that the universe is multidimensional - having more than four dimensions! In this case, an event can happen on one dimensional continuum; a completely different event can happen on another dimensional continuum - simultaneously!

Sincerely,
Al A. Gammate
http://www.theguaranteedcure.com/

Every evening I turn my worries over to God.
He's going to be up all night anyway.
~Mary C. Crowley
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10-20-2009, 07:10 AM
Post: #6
RE: My head is buzzing with questions...
A few problems with that.

1. While you're interpreting the bible figuratively... why not just abandon it altogether? Seriously, the craziest, most unbelievable bits of the bible are all the god and Jesus bits (at least so far as Jesus's divine nature.) If you're going to interpret anything metaphorically, those concepts should be the first to go.

2. How do you figuratively interpret the verses condoning slavery, extreme chauvinism, calls to genocide, and women marrying their rapists?

3. While the multiverse theory is interesting, there's very little evidence for it (or against it, for that matter,) and the theories put forth do not have the universes really interacting so much. So if there's a god in one universe, it really doesn't matter to OUR universe.

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10-20-2009, 11:30 AM
Post: #7
RE: My head is buzzing with questions...
(10-19-2009 07:50 PM)Al A. Gammate Wrote:  The Bible can be interpreted figuratively instead of literally. In this case, one can flexibly incorporate science into religion.

That is exactly the problem with the Bible; the word "INTERPRETATION". Interpretation leads to new rules. At the very end, whole nations are kept brain dead just because the inventor of the rule wants to stay in power...

As for string theory and multiverses as well as flux theories and all other "beyond our scope" theories: they only prove that the Bible is written by man, and that all thereafter is a complication of what once was probably just a "set of rules for a tribe"...

As for Jesus walking on water and handing out bread I can tell you how that story was created. Recently a famous Rabbi dies. His followers split into people that said: He's a dead Rabbi and into people that claim he is the redeemer. 10 years after his death the dead Rabbi performed miracles, according to the group declaring him the Redeemer... imagine what would be told about a popular person after 2000 years...
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10-24-2009, 12:28 AM
Post: #8
RE: My head is buzzing with questions...
(10-18-2009 04:45 PM)Terbunk Wrote:  I will try to explain my thinking and come to more questions:

• If God exists and ignited “the initial explosion” leading to an expanding place that we call universe or multiverse, and if God - by that action, initiated Creation, than we are actually saying that we evolved from stellar dust into what we resemble today.

• If I would consider myself belonging to the camp that claims that this universe is about 5.700 years old and that God the Almighty did not ignite this process – because it never happened, and that He did create material and life according to Genesis, than I am actually saying that science is not right, that one-and-one can't be two, or at least that the result is not definite or accurate.

• And finally if I would side with those that are looking for a link between 'Big Bang' scenarios, and Genesis, than I must doubt either one.

Can I still believe in God while convinced that we’ve evolved from bacteria? If so, doesn’t that eradicate most of the Biblical “Origin of Life”? To me it does, and it changes everything that I once was told about whom God is and what He could possibly want from ‘little’ me.

If God truly exists and He is the Omnipotent, the Creator of Everything then why is he depicted as a Police Officer in every Holy Book? Why is He and his Cronies standing on every corner, handing out Heavenly tickets for every little transgression made?

Does it really matter?
To me it does. The enormous unbalance in this world is frequently based on different religions, and my head is buzzing with questions that nobody actually dares to answer with anything else then: "You must believe because... bla bla bla - after life".

Is there an after-life? Because there is no scientific proof of there being a Soul, an Angle, a Devil, a God, a Heaven, so why then should I want to punish myself, restrict myself other than by Court Law? Why look upon infidels as lost souls, henceforth judge people on their religious believes, heritage etc. Why should I fear anymore for a ticket? What could possibly happen? Buzz Buzz Buzz...

There are people out there who "Don't Know What They Are Doing."

Michael is the Bad Cop.
Jesus is the Good Cop.
so El/god plays Bad Cop/Good Cop with us.

The "King" and his "Lords" are there to Reveal the Truth!
The "Devil" and his "Servants" are there to Hide the Truth!

God will intervene if Free Will is in danger of being taken away.
God will intervene if we all become extremely sinful!

For some people it just takes time to "Learn."
But there are a few people such as "Hitler" who never "Learn."

Heaven and Hell exist inside each and every person.
We have a Choice to live in the shadow or to be blinded by the light.
For that reason I say unto you,
You have heard: "God is Light for the Light is good."
But I say unto You: "Is all Light Good? How about that Light which Blinds."
"Is all Darkness Evil? From where do you think you stand,
I know where I do, and it's the Shadow of Our Christ."
So for that Reason I say unto You: This is how to Meditate!
"Like moths to the flame they flock to Lucifer's light,
stricken with awe,
and blinded by the light.
It is better to wade in the darkness,
than to be blinded by the light
so from the shadow of Christ,
let your soul take flight." Azrael, The Witness!
My words are my fire, those who do not heed them will be cast down into hell!

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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10-29-2009, 10:37 AM
Post: #9
RE: My head is buzzing with questions...
(10-18-2009 04:45 PM)Terbunk Wrote:  Can I still believe in God while convinced that we’ve evolved from bacteria? If so, doesn’t that eradicate most of the Biblical “Origin of Life”?

Once you accept that the Biblical Creation myth is pure fiction, your whole concept of "god" begins to morph. If you choose to continue to believe in "god," it will no longer be YHWH/El as depicted in the Bible.

Quote:If God truly exists and He is the Omnipotent, the Creator of Everything then why is he depicted as a Police Officer in every Holy Book? Why is He and his Cronies standing on every corner, handing out Heavenly tickets for every little transgression made?

OK, I'm speaking as a nontheist and as a former fundamentalist "messianic" Christian - as far as I can tell, all religions developed as ways to create widespread acceptance of societal rules. The more repressive the rules (and the more dictatorial the rulers), the more terrifying their "god" had to be. None of the world religions depict a rational deity of any kind. They are all anthropomorphic projections of political power.

Quote:Does it really matter?
To me it does. The enormous unbalance in this world is frequently based on different religions, and my head is buzzing with questions that nobody actually dares to answer with anything else then: "You must believe because... bla bla bla - after life".


It matters enormously.

To be fair, religion has played a very important role in the social evolution of civilization from nomadic tribal people to the present day. Without taboos and rationalizations for the Golden Rule, the slaughter might well have been even worse than it has been. The USSR under Stalin murdered more people than any regime in history, in the name of "godless communism."

What's more, religious sentiment has historically led to some very positive things. Hospitals and Universities are largely the result of Christianity. Our Western legal system can trace many roots back to Mosaic Judaism. Islam created a social order in which science thrived in the Middle Ages. Evangelical efforts have succeeded in bringing remote people groups into the World Community.

But I think we are now outgrowing our need for a Sky Daddy to tell us to be nice to each other. Secular humanist morality is on the rise at long last. It's time to stop killing in the name of dogma.

Quote:Is there an after-life?

Not very likely. Our awareness appears to be dependent on our bodies, specifically our brains.

If I'm wrong and there is a god and an afterlife, then there are a few possibilities:

- One of the world religions is right, and all the others are wrong. In which case the odds are stacked against me guessing who's right and who's wrong. What's more, whoever "god" is, s/he is a capricious sociopath if I'm going to be sent to hell for guessing wrong, so why would I want to worship such a deity anyways?

- None of the world religions are right, and god will accept all of us because god is love.

- None of the world religions are right, and god and the afterlife are completely beyond our comprehension. All bets are off.
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10-29-2009, 11:40 AM
Post: #10
RE: My head is buzzing with questions...
(10-29-2009 10:37 AM)Davka Wrote:  What's more, religious sentiment has historically led to some very positive things. Hospitals and Universities are largely the result of Christianity. Our Western legal system can trace many roots back to Mosaic Judaism. Islam created a social order in which science thrived in the Middle Ages. Evangelical efforts have succeeded in bringing remote people groups into the World Community.

I agree with most of what you said except this tidbit. I am of the opinion that only in direct defiance of religion did these institutions arise. If Christianity still had it's say we wouldn't go to a Hospital/Doctor we would go to a Church/Priest and the things being taught in these universities would be dramatically different. Science and Reason have had an uphill battle since the idea that God(s) were responsible for things we lacked an understanding of.
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