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Myths about Science and Religion
09-12-2009, 04:38 AM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2009 05:03 AM by catholicstation.)
Post: #1
Myths about Science and Religion
Defining myth as just “a claim that is false,” editor Numbers and 24 other scholars debunk 25 falsehoods about science and religion. The most familiar—that the church imprisoned and tortured Galileo, that medieval Islam was hostile to science, that medieval Christians thought the earth was flat, that the church fought against anesthesia—have long been discredited
http://www.amazon.com/Galileo-Other-Myth...0674033272

The Papacy and Galileo

Many have unwittingly embraced the myth that Galileo Galilei, a 17th-century Italian astronomer, discovered the heliocentricity of the solar system and, because his discovery conflicted with Catholic teaching, was tortured until he recanted. All this is pure fabrication.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/article...c0033.html

Pope to Pontifical Science Academy


"No Opposition Between Faith’s Understanding of Creation and the Evidence of the Empirical Sciences"

To state that the foundation of the cosmos and its developments is the provident wisdom of the Creator is not to say that creation has only to do with the beginning of the history of the world and of life. It implies, rather, that the Creator founds these developments and supports them, underpins them and sustains them continuously.

. And thanks to the natural sciences we have greatly increased our understanding of the uniqueness of humanity’s place in the cosmos.

The distinction between a simple living being and a spiritual being that is capax Dei (capable of receiving God), points to the existence of the intellective soul of a free transcendent subject. Thus the Magisterium of the Church has constantly affirmed that "every spiritual soul is created immediately by God – it is not ‘produced’ by the parents – and also that it is immortal" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 366). This points to the distinctiveness of anthropology, and invites exploration of it by modern thought.
http://www.zenit.org/article-24120?l=english
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09-12-2009, 06:03 AM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2009 06:03 AM by Parousia.)
Post: #2
RE: Myths about Science and Religion
Catholic is correct in all his statements. However one small proviso should be added. The heliocentric view destroyed the nested sphere model of Aristotle, itself constructed on a presumption that a vacuum could not exist. (Rotating spheres would always occupy the same volume and therefore no vacuum would be needed. Objects moving in orbits would leave vacuums behind.) This in turn was conceptually related to Aristotle's Prime Mover argument for the existence of God. To some, the Copernican view became an issue of theism versus atheism. Although this was never an official stance of the Church, it colored some people's conceptions.
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09-12-2009, 08:37 AM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2009 08:50 AM by catholicstation.)
Post: #3
RE: Myths about Science and Religion
(09-12-2009 06:03 AM)Parousia Wrote:  Catholic is correct in all his statements. However one small proviso should be added. The heliocentric view destroyed the nested sphere model of Aristotle, itself constructed on a presumption that a vacuum could not exist. (Rotating spheres would always occupy the same volume and therefore no vacuum would be needed. Objects moving in orbits would leave vacuums behind.) This in turn was conceptually related to Aristotle's Prime Mover argument for the existence of God. To some, the Copernican view became an issue of theism versus atheism. Although this was never an official stance of the Church, it colored some people's conceptions.

Science is always incomplete - in my lifetime we were going to have an Ice Age and Now we are going to burn up - Tomorrow who knows the Sun may explode
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The big change since Darwin is Science is no longer objective - It is Subjective and Political
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09-12-2009, 09:46 AM
Post: #4
RE: Myths about Science and Religion
(09-12-2009 08:37 AM)catholicstation Wrote:  Science is always incomplete - in my lifetime we were going to have an Ice Age and Now we are going to burn up - Tomorrow who knows the Sun may explode

I have been hearing discussion of 'global warming' - not necessarily under that name - for my entire life. And I doubt you are much older than me. The only discussions of an impending Ice Age that I recall were:

. A comment by several sources that we are barely out of an ice age, that period being substantially less than the typical period between past glaciations.

. An article by Isaac Asimov a long time ago (30+ years) about how increasing temperatures could melt the polar ice cap, leading to increased evaporation, followed by greater precipitation on surrounding land areas. When that precipitation froze the greater reflectivity could rapidly reduce temperatures in that region sending galciers on the march southward until the cap froze over again. This was the first discussion I recall of 'climate change' resulting from 'global warming'.
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09-12-2009, 10:26 AM
Post: #5
RE: Myths about Science and Religion
Global warming is an example of media spin on science, actually. A few decades ago a group of scientists became concerned that there may be something off about our environment. They released papers saying this, and saying that this could lead to global cooling, but that the situation needed to be looked at more carefully. The media picked up on this and we had the "global cooling" stage.

Then these people did look at it more carefully. And they announced that what we were really facing was global warming. The thing is that global warming does not mean temperatures all over getting hotter. It means that the net temperature of the globe gets hotter, but the initial result of that (what we're seeing now,) is climate destabilization as traditional weather patterns and oceanic currents get messed up. It means things swing to extremes. Temperature records are broken, we have very cold winters and very hot summers, we have droughts in some places, floods in others as weather patterns shift from their normal patterns. This is exactly what we have.

A high school science teacher let this debate obsess his life, and he ended up making this: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=...BE2987982F - 6 hours of exacting, minute detail going into the facts of global climate change, whether it exists, whether it doesn't, and whether we can afford to ignore it. He recently (this summer) came out with a book on the same subject. Yes, it's 6 hours long, but it is well worth the watch. For people who thought an Inconvenient Truth was just a bunch of sour grapes over losing the presidential election (and I could see how one could think that,) this is just bare-knuckled, "Here's the facts, here's what people are saying, and here's what's really at stake," told high school science teacher style. And with silly hats and explosions.

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09-12-2009, 10:28 AM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2009 10:29 AM by catholicstation.)
Post: #6
RE: Myths about Science and Religion
(09-12-2009 09:46 AM)Parousia Wrote:  
(09-12-2009 08:37 AM)catholicstation Wrote:  Science is always incomplete - in my lifetime we were going to have an Ice Age and Now we are going to burn up - Tomorrow who knows the Sun may explode

I have been hearing discussion of 'global warming' - not necessarily under that name - for my entire life. And I doubt you are much older than me. The only discussions of an impending Ice Age that I recall were:

. A comment by several sources that we are barely out of an ice age, that period being substantially less than the typical period between past glaciations.

. An article by Isaac Asimov a long time ago (30+ years) about how increasing temperatures could melt the polar ice cap, leading to increased evaporation, followed by greater precipitation on surrounding land areas. When that precipitation froze the greater reflectivity could rapidly reduce temperatures in that region sending galciers on the march southward until the cap froze over again. This was the first discussion I recall of 'climate change' resulting from 'global warming'.

When I read the article on Space.com that said The Ice Caps on Mars were melting 3 years in a row - I knew no human had anything to do with it-

It is a cycle or The Sun is going to explode
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09-12-2009, 10:32 AM
Post: #7
RE: Myths about Science and Religion
One doesn't equal the other. Yes, there are cycles. And yes, we are in the middle of one right now. But even the scientists who are arguing that this is just cycles (Fred Singer, whose book read like something by Bill O'Reilly or Al Franken with all the baseless attacks he made against the scientific mainstream,) can't make the historical cycles fit with modern data from earth. And they acknowledge that whether it's man-made or not, it's going to shake things up really, really badly around here.

People talk about natural cycles as if that means they are harmless, but natural cycles wipe out civilizations. The one thing Singer does a good job of in his book is linking the rise and fall of major world civilizations to these historical cycles. And guess what? This time, we're messing up the cycle. It's coming way earlier than it's supposed to, which means we're helping it along. Which means the sort of civilization-collapsing climate of the past is going to be even harsher when it hits us.

This is why we need to start taking this seriously.

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09-14-2009, 11:50 PM
Post: #8
RE: Myths about Science and Religion
(09-12-2009 10:32 AM)GTseng3 Wrote:  One doesn't equal the other. Yes, there are cycles. And yes, we are in the middle of one right now. But even the scientists who are arguing that this is just cycles (Fred Singer, whose book read like something by Bill O'Reilly or Al Franken with all the baseless attacks he made against the scientific mainstream,) can't make the historical cycles fit with modern data from earth. And they acknowledge that whether it's man-made or not, it's going to shake things up really, really badly around here.

People talk about natural cycles as if that means they are harmless, but natural cycles wipe out civilizations. The one thing Singer does a good job of in his book is linking the rise and fall of major world civilizations to these historical cycles. And guess what? This time, we're messing up the cycle. It's coming way earlier than it's supposed to, which means we're helping it along. Which means the sort of civilization-collapsing climate of the past is going to be even harsher when it hits us.

This is why we need to start taking this seriously.

Buenos Aires gets first snow since 1918 - 2007

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-...snow_N.htm

Sydney's Coolest Summer in 50 Years - 2008
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/arti...841387.cms

record summer lows - 2009
Several Midwest states — including Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and South Dakota— recorded one of their 10 coldest summers on record. Northwestern Pennsylvania recorded its coldest summer ever. Climate records date to 1895.
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/...htm?csp=34

Al Gore / AIT Index indicates that global temperatures have plunged approximately .74°F (.39°C) since An Inconvenient Truth was released.
http://algorelied.com/?p=2429
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09-15-2009, 03:05 AM
Post: #9
RE: Myths about Science and Religion
Yes. Which, if you actually understand the science, is EXACTLY what scientists have predicted.

Global "Warming" means a gradual warming. It does NOT mean everything gets hotter. Keep in mind global climate is an incredibly sophisticated natural system, with weather patterns feeding in each other. For instance, one of the first consequences of global warming is not warmer air temperatures, but warmer oceans. This causes warm currents (like the gulf stream) to slow down. When this slows down, it no longer warms places like, say, Europe. Thus, Europe will actually get colder.

When average temperatures get noticeably hotter all over the world, it's too late. First what we will have is climate fluctuations (records of all sorts broken, which we have seen in the last few years.) We will see, not necessarily more destructive storm seasons, but strange storm seasons. Storms doing things we haven't seen them do before (which we have seen). We will see drought hit some places, and floods others as weather patterns begin to shift due to the changing climate (again, seen).

Any time you see someplace reporting "X-est on record" as in the "Coldest on record" article above, it is not a good thing. The climate is complicated, people. I only understand this much because I'm an obsessive researcher, and I wouldn't be surprised if I got one or two facts wrong in my explanation above. This is why we have climatologists who make the climate their entire course of study. And these climatologists . . . wait for it . . . say that global warming is real and human-caused.

We have experts. Listen to them. Because I don't have all the answers, and catholicstation has even less.

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09-15-2009, 04:38 AM (This post was last modified: 09-15-2009 04:51 AM by catholicstation.)
Post: #10
RE: Myths about Science and Religion
(09-15-2009 03:05 AM)GTseng3 Wrote:  Yes. Which, if you actually understand the science, is EXACTLY what scientists have predicted.

Global "Warming" means a gradual warming. It does NOT mean everything gets hotter. Keep in mind global climate is an incredibly sophisticated natural system, with weather patterns feeding in each other. For instance, one of the first consequences of global warming is not warmer air temperatures, but warmer oceans. This causes warm currents (like the gulf stream) to slow down. When this slows down, it no longer warms places like, say, Europe. Thus, Europe will actually get colder.

When average temperatures get noticeably hotter all over the world, it's too late. First what we will have is climate fluctuations (records of all sorts broken, which we have seen in the last few years.) We will see, not necessarily more destructive storm seasons, but strange storm seasons. Storms doing things we haven't seen them do before (which we have seen). We will see drought hit some places, and floods others as weather patterns begin to shift due to the changing climate (again, seen).

Any time you see someplace reporting "X-est on record" as in the "Coldest on record" article above, it is not a good thing. The climate is complicated, people. I only understand this much because I'm an obsessive researcher, and I wouldn't be surprised if I got one or two facts wrong in my explanation above. This is why we have climatologists who make the climate their entire course of study. And these climatologists . . . wait for it . . . say that global warming is real and human-caused.

We have experts. Listen to them. Because I don't have all the answers, and catholicstation has even less.

Global warming ended three years ago. We are now entering a 27-year solar cycle of global cooling.

NASA announced in September 2008 that the solar wind is the lowest in recorded history, global cooling is due to decrease in sun spot activity.

Evidence from NASA Microwave Sounding Unit and Hadley Climate Research Unit (Mauna Loa Observatory, Hawaii) offers irrefutable scientific evidence that the earth is now in a period of global cooling.

During the past winter of 2008-09, 1,500 new record low temperatures were set, along with 700 snow records; 179 glaciers around the world are advancing at record rate.
http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/vi...35757.html

Greenpeace urges kangaroo consumption to fight global warming
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nationa...1114612144
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