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Netherlands and Turkey
03-11-2017, 12:47 PM
Post: #1
Netherlands and Turkey
What is going on Herm? I've been trying to follow things but I don't understand why Turkish government ministers want to speak publicly in the Netherlands or other European countries, and because their purpose is unclear to me from the stories I've read, I don't understand why they are being banned from doing so. Thoughts?
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03-11-2017, 08:49 PM
Post: #2
RE: Netherlands and Turkey
(03-11-2017 12:47 PM)Visqueen Wrote:  What is going on Herm? I've been trying to follow things but I don't understand why Turkish government ministers want to speak publicly in the Netherlands or other European countries, and because their purpose is unclear to me from the stories I've read, I don't understand why they are being banned from doing so. Thoughts?

Here's the story:

There's an upcoming referendum in Turkey - that if voted in favor of by a majority will turn Turkey into an autocracy - a mild form of dictatorship under PM Erdogan. That's their business though.

For some reason, the Turkish government is now sending some of their ministers around Europe to tell "Turkish" people abroad, i.e. Western European people owning two passports (e.g. Dutch and Turkish), who have a right to vote in this referendum, that they should vote "yes".

Us Western European countries think this is idiocy - these people are citizens of our countries, and Turkey is now acting as if they are Turkish citizens (just because they also own a Turkish passport) and that they can organize election rallies in our countries.

Now we have refused it, we (so far Germany and The Netherlands) are being called "nazis" and "fascists" by Erdogan - the man seems to have lost the plot. As you can imagine, especially the Germans don't take this lightly.

Just for some background - ca. 20% of all Dutch people with a Turkish background (runs up to about 4 generations - they first came in the 70's) are supporters of Erdogan - the rest aren't.

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03-12-2017, 09:48 AM
Post: #3
RE: Netherlands and Turkey
Update: yesterday, a female Turkish minister (of agriculture I think) was announced "persona non grata" by our government, and escorted back to where she came from (Germany). She was in one of our big cities at the time (sneaked into the country in a car), ready to lead a rally about the referendum.

Earlier yesterday, the Turkish ambassador had flat out lied to our government about her intentions.

The reaction of the Turkish government again is out of all proportions: next to again calling us nazis, they are threatening "revenge" and "far-strecthing measures" to "punish" us. This is not the reaction of your typical democratic country, and certainly not that of a fellow NATO member.

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03-12-2017, 11:41 AM
Post: #4
RE: Netherlands and Turkey
It seems that since the coup - although it could and probably has been much longer - Erdogan is becoming more and more autocratic. It appears that he is using that event to ramp things up. Thanks for the explanation, I had no idea they were trying to electioneer in other countries. So strange that they think they have a right to do that. I read an article yesterday that suggested Erdogan is actually being quite wiley in doing this as he is possibly counting on countries such as yours to behave the way you quite rightly have but it then allows him to start shouting silliness about nazis and makes him look better to harder line voters in Turkey - it gives the people other countries to focus their anger on rather than his government.

I was just laughing imagining all the different countries who could decide to attempt what Erdogan is doing, in Canada - we'd have about 50 countries always electioneering here. Crazy.
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03-12-2017, 11:52 AM
Post: #5
RE: Netherlands and Turkey
(03-12-2017 11:41 AM)Visqueen Wrote:  I read an article yesterday that suggested Erdogan is actually being quite wiley in doing this as he is possibly counting on countries such as yours to behave the way you quite rightly have but it then allows him to start shouting silliness about nazis and makes him look better to harder line voters in Turkey - it gives the people other countries to focus their anger on rather than his government.

This is exactly what he is trying to do - but alienating your fellow NATO members, and stopping the process for Turkey EU membership (what they have been trying to get for 30 years now) is a high price to pay for goodwill from your people.

(03-12-2017 11:41 AM)Visqueen Wrote:  I was just laughing imagining all the different countries who could decide to attempt what Erdogan is doing, in Canada - we'd have about 50 countries always electioneering here. Crazy.

Indeed it's extremely silly but that article you mentioned describes exactly what's behind it.

There's still questions about the "coup" in Turkey though - it is supposed to be staged by a handful of generals, but the execution was more like it was staged by some boy scouts with a few helicopters and a tank. Somehow it's hard to believe it went down as described by Erdogan's government.

Remember Turkey has a recent history of coups from last century - and each and every time the military were succesful and firmly seized power.

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03-14-2017, 05:14 PM (This post was last modified: 03-14-2017 05:28 PM by Splendor.)
Post: #6
RE: Netherlands and Turkey
Geert Wilders - ‘Excellent Decision’ Netherlands cancels landing permission for Turkish minister





Meet Geert Wilders, the Donald Trump of The Netherlands | 'Make The Netherlands Great Again!' Smile

"Dutch far-right politician Geert Wilders has spent more than a decade encouraging popular resentment against Muslims, the E.U. and immigrants. What were once fringe views have turned into a national movement, which has many asking whether the March 15 Netherlands elections will turn into another populist revolt against the established liberal order.
Polls currently show Wilders' anti-immigration Party for Freedom (PVV) running neck and neck with Prime Minister Mark Rutte's Liberals. With elections in France, Germany and potentially Italy on the horizon, how Wilders fares in Holland will be viewed as a bellwether for the future of the E.U."




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