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Only atheists deny miracles
02-15-2009, 12:26 AM (This post was last modified: 02-15-2009 12:27 AM by dattaswami1.)
Post: #1
Only atheists deny miracles
Only atheists deny miracles

Question: The majority denies miracles because today majority of the people knows science. Therefore, you cannot deny our side by showing the majority as the minority.

Answer: Only atheists deny miracles. Science keeps silent about the miracles because it cannot explain the miracles. Silence does not mean negation. In the books of science you do not find any topic with the name “denying miracles”. It only mentions the topics like light, heat, electricity etc., which are the topics of analysis of known and knowable items of the world. It never touches the unknown and unknowable aspects. In fact the uncertainty principle of Heisenberg establishes that there are certain concepts, which are beyond the accuracy of our senses and even sophisticated instruments like electron microscope etc. Therefore, science is neutral and cannot be added to atheists or theists.

The atheists are definitely in negligible minority compared to theists. Therefore, people denying miracles fall under minority only. The theists also accept the concepts proved by science, which are related to the world. These theists accept miracles also as unimaginable events about which science does not speak at all. Therefore, there is no contradiction between theists and science. The theist never says that the revolution of fan is unimaginable miracle and hence, the theists never oppose science. In fact, atheists oppose science by denying miracles about which science keeps silent.
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02-15-2009, 05:11 AM
Post: #2
RE: Only atheists deny miracles
(02-15-2009 12:26 AM)dattaswami1 Wrote:  Science keeps silent about the miracles because it cannot explain the miracles. Silence does not mean negation. In the books of science you do not find any topic with the name “denying miracles”.


Rather than just saying it - prove it. Back it up. Show evidence. Any evidence. The reason that most science books lack the section "Denying Miracles" is because miracles are rarely worth denying. Find actual, undeniable proof of a miracle and I will happily admit that sure, there might be something that we don't understand at work. God? Maybe. Maybe not.


(02-15-2009 12:26 AM)dattaswami1 Wrote:  The atheists are definitely in negligible minority compared to theists. Therefore, people denying miracles fall under minority only. The theists also accept the concepts proved by science, which are related to the world. These theists accept miracles also as unimaginable events about which science does not speak at all.

Atheists may seem to be a minority sure, but that's simply due to several factors. The main one is the fact that people rarely think about what they believe in - they simply listen to what they were told when they were children. Secondly, some people don't want to admit that they disbelieve in God for several reasons. It was difficult for me personally when I was an atheist to admit the fact to religious members of my family. Finally, the reason that science stays quiet on miracles is not because they cannot explain them - it is because almost every so-called "miracle" can be explained away quite simply. Also, it is not fair to say that theists accept concepts proven by science. Proof of the Theory of Evolution has been seen in the past and is still denied by a great number of theists.

"Humanity invented religion initially to overcome the permanent loss of consciousness that occurs at death and it was then taken over by groups who use it to control other groups" - Innuendo, from Def-Logic forums.
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02-15-2009, 05:43 AM
Post: #3
RE: Only atheists deny miracles
redneck why don,t you get doctors opinions about miracles.?there are enough of them that can,t explain why people get better.unless you think the doctors are not proffesional enough.?

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02-15-2009, 06:01 AM
Post: #4
RE: Only atheists deny miracles
(02-15-2009 05:43 AM)smellycat Wrote:  redneck why don,t you get doctors opinions about miracles.?there are enough of them that can,t explain why people get better.unless you think the doctors are not proffesional enough.?

I don't think you understand what I mean by miracle. I don't mean a "Yes, he should have died, but his immune system rallied and fought off the virus" type miracle, I mean an honest to gosh could-not-have-happened in any circumstance but divine intervention miracle.

The re-growing of a limb would do nicely. Or, hell, let's go the whole hog and get us some resurrection goin' on. I mean, Jesus managed it with Lazarus. Surely God could manage the same thing.

The word miracle is thrown around all too much nowadays. To quote wikipedia "A miracle is a sensibly perceptible interruption of the laws of nature, such that can only be explained by divine intervention". Not a random chance of luck.

"Humanity invented religion initially to overcome the permanent loss of consciousness that occurs at death and it was then taken over by groups who use it to control other groups" - Innuendo, from Def-Logic forums.
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02-15-2009, 06:36 AM
Post: #5
RE: Only atheists deny miracles
so would you believe then.?

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02-15-2009, 10:15 AM
Post: #6
RE: Only atheists deny miracles
(02-15-2009 05:11 AM)Mr_Redneck Wrote:  
(02-15-2009 12:26 AM)dattaswami1 Wrote:  Science keeps silent about the miracles because it cannot explain the miracles. Silence does not mean negation. In the books of science you do not find any topic with the name “denying miracles”.


Rather than just saying it - prove it. Back it up. Show evidence. Any evidence. The reason that most science books lack the section "Denying Miracles" is because miracles are rarely worth denying. Find actual, undeniable proof of a miracle and I will happily admit that sure, there might be something that we don't understand at work. God? Maybe. Maybe not.


(02-15-2009 12:26 AM)dattaswami1 Wrote:  The atheists are definitely in negligible minority compared to theists. Therefore, people denying miracles fall under minority only. The theists also accept the concepts proved by science, which are related to the world. These theists accept miracles also as unimaginable events about which science does not speak at all.

Atheists may seem to be a minority sure, but that's simply due to several factors. The main one is the fact that people rarely think about what they believe in - they simply listen to what they were told when they were children. Secondly, some people don't want to admit that they disbelieve in God for several reasons. It was difficult for me personally when I was an atheist to admit the fact to religious members of my family. Finally, the reason that science stays quiet on miracles is not because they cannot explain them - it is because almost every so-called "miracle" can be explained away quite simply. Also, it is not fair to say that theists accept concepts proven by science. Proof of the Theory of Evolution has been seen in the past and is still denied by a great number of theists.

The theory of evolution proposed by Darwin is confined to living beings only. If you consider the evolution of the entire cosmos, Einstein’s theories are also to be considered. The science says that the cosmic energy in the state of invisible waves of high frequency is in space itself. The special theory of relativity proves that the space bends around the object and this shows that the space is nothing but finest form of energy.

Hence, there is nothing like nothing (vacuum) even according to the latest science. Such space is the first primordial energy in the subtlest form and this is called as akasha. The visible effects of the primordial energy like light etc are denoted by the word Agni. Vayu (Air), apah (liquid) and prithivi (solid) represent the matter in the three states.

From these five elements the life is evolved, which is the plant kingdom (Prithivyah oshadhayah … Veda). Gradually the animal kingdom with the latest human being is evolved. This represents the energy, matter and awareness, which are gradually evolved one after the other. Such evolution is mentioned in Vedas (Akashat vayuh). Since the visible energy like light is produced after the existence of atoms only; the primordial energy, the gaseous state in which the atoms and molecules move freely and the visible energy like light are produced in sequence as per Veda (Vayoragnih).

The final conclusion is that energy (primordial), matter and awareness are produced in sequence. Since the nervous energy or awareness is produced from the inert energy functioning in the nervous system by oxidation of oxygen gas, the gradual production of awareness from energy and matter is justified in Veda as well as in the theory of evolution in science. The formation of matter from energy is clearly proved by Einstein through the law of equivalence of mass and energy. Therefore, the theory of evolution proposed by Darwin associated with the Einstein’s theories will certainly prove the evolution of universe from the energy or space in sequential manner.

But Veda mentions one more item indicated by the word Atman as the ultimate cause from which the primordial energy or space was generated (Atmana akashah… Veda). You cannot say that the word Atman means awareness here, because, awareness (purushah) is mentioned as the third generated product in the chain of evolution. A generated product in the chain cannot be the first ultimate cause.
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02-15-2009, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 02-15-2009 12:19 PM by clarence clutterbuck.)
Post: #7
RE: Only atheists deny miracles
Mister Spock googled dattswami1's reply to Mr Redneck and found the full text already exists on other websites.

[Image: Mr_Spock.jpg]

Interesting...

Captain, I submit that the Mister dattswami is nothing more than a sophisticated computer..
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02-15-2009, 12:24 PM
Post: #8
RE: Only atheists deny miracles
Thank you Mister Spock. I have also noticed that he duplicates his own posts within this very forum.

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Destroy this computer now . . .
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02-15-2009, 06:45 PM
Post: #9
RE: Only atheists deny miracles
Would it be wrong to give you both +reputation for this? Big Grin

"Humanity invented religion initially to overcome the permanent loss of consciousness that occurs at death and it was then taken over by groups who use it to control other groups" - Innuendo, from Def-Logic forums.
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02-16-2009, 09:37 AM
Post: #10
RE: Only atheists deny miracles
Darn, I want in on the Star Trek action...

If you should see evident sins or defects, draw out of those thorns the rose; perceiving, moreover, that such apparent sinners may frequently have a good intention, for no one can judge the secrets of the heart of man.
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