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Open your Mind
07-07-2009, 02:42 AM
Post: #1
Open your Mind
Hi all~
We all are created in the image of God, your parents are created in the image of God. you and your siblings are created from image of your parents and God. that is why "Honor your Parents" is one of the Commandments. practice how to honor your parents is the key to your kingdom of heaven. makes sense to honor your parents is honoring God. How can our ancestors not know how important this is? The answer is we focus too far in out faith that we are blind to the teachings near us. Focus too much on God is trying to learn how to sprint when you don't know how to crawl. I cant imagine God loving me when i cant value my parents as my earthly god. One reason i don't go to church is knowing the priest abandoned his parents and family to father the faith. he lacks moral purity. how can i learn something from a man that hasn't played a mortal son but yet preach like a spiritual father?
I hope you guys understand the concept with a open mind.. thanks for reading..
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07-07-2009, 08:43 AM
Post: #2
RE: Open your Mind
"Honor thy Father and thy Mother" is yet another verse I find highly suspect. It reinforces patriarchal dominion for no good reason. My parents weren't bad, but they were also wrong on many counts, and I have many friends whose parents were abusive. These were people that needed to stop honoring their parents and start standing up for what is right.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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07-07-2009, 12:06 PM
Post: #3
RE: Open your Mind
Perhaps you should consider actually reading and becoming familiar with the New Testament. Jesus called for people to forsake all and teach to spread the Word and glorify God.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/discipleschrist/
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07-07-2009, 08:34 PM
Post: #4
RE: Open your Mind
Which contradicts a lot of other things in the Bible, including Jesus asking one of his disciples (can't remember if it was James or John, I want to say James since he was Jesus's brother,) to look after his mother.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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07-07-2009, 10:18 PM (This post was last modified: 07-07-2009 10:19 PM by Parousia.)
Post: #5
RE: Open your Mind
(07-07-2009 12:06 PM)PatPar Wrote:  Perhaps you should consider actually reading and becoming familiar with the New Testament. Jesus called for people to forsake all and teach to spread the Word and glorify God.

No, in Matthew 19, Jesus was speaking to a man who was already (or so he said) fulfilling all the requirements for eternal life but wanted to do more. Jesus invited the man to come along with him on the road, which meant giving up all worldly possessions. This did not mean that everyone should give up all their worldly possessions.

We see in Luke 14, Jesus again making it clear that being on the road with him was not easy and not for everyone.

Read the Bible in context, not like a collection of fortune cookie one liners.
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07-07-2009, 10:42 PM (This post was last modified: 07-07-2009 10:57 PM by PatPar.)
Post: #6
RE: Open your Mind
Luke 14:25-33 interprets different if you read the king James version. It would obviously make no sense if a person had a horrible family for there to be any obligation to "Honor thy Father and thy Mother", although one could still live as specified otherwise. As we know it is just not the case that everyone has wonderful parents. There are families that beat their children and even worse. Notice that I did not say that Jesus called for Everyone to to forsake all. Although.. I do seem to recall a certain passage about a camel.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/discipleschrist/
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07-08-2009, 04:08 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2009 04:42 AM by friendofafriend.)
Post: #7
RE: Open your Mind
what if jesus returned and said you didnt honor your parents therefor gates of heaven will not open to you? will you say the same things mentioned in previous post to him?
(07-07-2009 08:43 AM)GTseng3 Wrote:  "Honor thy Father and thy Mother" is yet another verse I find highly suspect. It reinforces patriarchal dominion for no good reason. My parents weren't bad, but they were also wrong on many counts, and I have many friends whose parents were abusive. These were people that needed to stop honoring their parents and start standing up for what is right.

what you think is right and feel that its right makes it right? self defence towards your parents is right? killing your parents while they were gonna burn you alive is right?.

"whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matthew 5:39)

its sad to see people throw their folks into senior home and just come around just to feed them..
feeding them..huh.. its like having a dog..
(07-07-2009 10:42 PM)PatPar Wrote:  Luke 14:25-33 interprets different if you read the king James version. It would obviously make no sense if a person had a horrible family for there to be any obligation to "Honor thy Father and thy Mother", although one could still live as specified otherwise. As we know it is just not the case that everyone has wonderful parents. There are families that beat their children and even worse. Notice that I did not say that Jesus called for Everyone to to forsake all. Although.. I do seem to recall a certain passage about a camel.

i would give my last breath to my family no matter how they treat me in my life. giving back life rather taking it..
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07-08-2009, 06:17 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2009 08:24 AM by Parousia.)
Post: #8
RE: Open your Mind
(07-07-2009 10:42 PM)PatPar Wrote:  Luke 14:25-33 interprets different if you read the king James version.

The King James version of Luke 14 does not seem to read any differently to me, sense wise. Can you point out what you mean?

(07-07-2009 10:42 PM)PatPar Wrote:  It would obviously make no sense if a person had a horrible family for there to be any obligation to "Honor thy Father and thy Mother", although one could still live as specified otherwise. As we know it is just not the case that everyone has wonderful parents. There are families that beat their children and even worse.

The Matthew 19 commandments and related passages in Mark and Luke can easily be interpreted as prescriptions for preserving social order. In that time and place, the integrity of the family, with its implications of passing on to children the traditions that preserve and identify the community, would certainly be part of that. There are various OT passages (that I am too lazy to track down) that discuss treating children appropriately - a two-edged sword of course.

(07-07-2009 10:42 PM)PatPar Wrote:  Notice that I did not say that Jesus called for Everyone to to forsake all. Although.. I do seem to recall a certain passage about a camel.

The camel bit is a fine example of Biblical hyperbole, a style in which an outrageous image is presented in literal form to emphasize a point.

Quote:23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is very hard for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
24 I’ll say it again—it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!”

This was an era of hypocritical lip service to the literal Law and little observance of the spirit of the Law. Hypocrisy was a big hot button to Jesus.
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07-08-2009, 08:37 AM
Post: #9
RE: Open your Mind
(07-07-2009 10:18 PM)Parousia Wrote:  ...Read the Bible in context, not like a collection of fortune cookie one liners...

This is probably the best advice I've ever seen on an Internet forum--but unfortunately it's also the advice that usually gets ignored.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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07-08-2009, 09:39 AM
Post: #10
RE: Open your Mind
(07-08-2009 04:08 AM)friendofafriend Wrote:  what if jesus returned and said you didnt honor your parents therefor gates of heaven will not open to you? will you say the same things mentioned in previous post to him?

Yes I would. "So let me get this straight. You're saying heaven's closed to me because my parents were wrong, and I did what was right instead? You say heaven's closed to my friends because they rejected their parents and left their home rather than be abused, and called the cops to keep their siblings from being abused? Screw you and your heaven, clearly all the moral people are in hell."

IF god exists (a big if, one that I do not believe is true,) he does not get to be worshiped just because he is all-powerful, or a creator, or whatever. He also must be MORAL. Now, the sort of dogmatic interpretation that you are giving to the bible I seriously doubt in the first place. I would suspect any truly loving god would completely understand that parents are humans too, and thus very often wrong, and that at a certain point wrongs can be forgiven, but not respected and lived with. But if the literal, hateful god of the bible existed, then he would have to be resisted. In the end, doing evil things because you were "just following orders" is no excuse, whether you're speaking of a dictator or a god.

Quote:what you think is right and feel that its right makes it right? self defence towards your parents is right? killing your parents while they were gonna burn you alive is right?.

I never said anything about hurting them, we were talking about not honoring them. Though quite honestly, if they were going to burn me alive . . . yeah, at that point I'd be okay with killing in self-defense. But our morality ultimately must rely on what we think and feel is right. The question is, how reasoned and logical do we force ourselves to be? Do we constantly challenge our perceptions of right and wrong in order to get closer to the truth? Or do we ignorantly follow dogma, thus ensuring that our version of "right" is almost certainly wrong?

Quote:"whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matthew 5:39)

I'm pretty sure Jesus was talking about the non-lethal kind of slap here. Plus, you have to look at context. This is in the middle of Jesus's sermon on the mount. It's an entire sermon filled with generalities. Which is fine, it remains one of the most fascinating moral works in the Bible, but there are exceptions. He was speaking to Jews in the midst of Roman occupation, Jews who were hankering for rebellion. So he told them to be meek, to be humble, and to turn the other cheek. Because that's what they needed to do then. Then was not the time for military action, either against the temple or against the Romans. Then was the time for self-examination, of removing the beam in thine own eye before the mote in thy brothers, etc.

Quote:i would give my last breath to my family no matter how they treat me in my life. giving back life rather taking it..

And it's because of people with attitudes like that that we still have child abuse. Don't get me wrong, if you come from a good, loving family then loyalty to family is great. Family is a wonderful thing, if they're not trying to beat the crap out of you or exploit you for all they're worth. But I've seen children forced to create contingency plans to escape the house with their younger siblings should their psychotic mother actually try to burn them alive. I've seen children have their lives utterly destroyed because when their ignorant, horrible parents told them they were worthless, pointless, and useless they believed them.

Parents are the single greatest influence on a child. And if that influence is a bad one the child should remove themselves as soon as possible.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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