Poll: Do you think religion is a form of king?
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Out of our desire for a King.
07-12-2013, 10:50 PM
Post: #1
Out of our desire for a King.
Out of our desire for a King.

But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.

Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king. He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.”

But the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want a king over us. Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles.”

When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the Lord. The Lord answered, “Listen to them and give them a king.”

We see in 1 Samuel 8, that Israel makes a poor choice and demands a king. Up until this point the people of Israel had been had been governed by God through His priests and prophets. All of this came about because Samuel had appointed his two sons as leaders and they were doing a poor job. Israel could have made the decision to continue trusting God but because their current form of leadership was flawed they didn't feel secure.

This piece of history is of a physical nature but it does transfer over to the spiritual. Although I think that God is always concerned about us, He will sometimes allow a decision to be made so that He can convey something on a larger scale. Israel having a leader didn't always work out well but it did bring a lot of benefits and protection to the Israelite people. So their need for a king was justified, as evident by the fact that God continuously used their king for His purposes.

The warning that is given here, I think is a message of something else – a warning about something else.

We, as people, really are like little sheep. We want someone to lead us, we want someone to tell us how to do something, we want guidelines, we want rules, we want laws – this is just a part of our nature. In some regards this can be a good thing, we're willing to listen to an authority and allow them to direct us. The danger is when our desire for physical leadership seeps into the spiritual realm.

There are about 21 major religions in the world today and they all have something in common – they offer a plan of salvation. Some of them offer a less stringent path to spiritual enlightenment while others are more dominant in their approach. Christianity, though it wouldn't seem like it, is very controlling in their rules of membership. You see very few churches turn people away or deny them but their congregations do the equivalent.

There are approximately 33 thousand denominations within Christianity. The denominations with the more stringent “rules” have higher numbers. Denominations with a more liberal views have fewer numbers and are generally looked down upon by the other denominations. All of this pertains to religion and has little to do with salvation. We're still looking for that king – rather than accepting God as our true King.

We would rather have religion and doctrines telling us what to do rather than allowing God to truly reign over our life and shepherd us.

Just like with the kings of Israel – God does use religion to do His work so Christianity isn't all bad. Having moral guidelines can be important to some people – especially when a person is in need of structure but when those guidelines and doctrines become king then they become meaningless instructions and rules that begin to replace God.

“When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.”

When we hold ourselves to laws and doctrine, we become a slave to those laws and doctrine. If we live our lives in slavery to rules and regulations as a means to salvation – then those rules and regulations (religion) become our king. Because religion is our king, we do things purely because we are told to do them – and our king will receive our reward.

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.

I don't think it is a stretch to believe that Revelation isn't talking about actual kings but rather different religions – Christianity included. Religion clouds the mind, exacerbates our struggles and cheapens our motives. It specifies what will deny or grant us salvation, which negates and tramples upon the love God exhibited with His death and resurrection.

Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

What did Jesus mean when He said this? Did He mean that we would have to follow His way of life? If we were to follow His way of life we would have to live in perfect submission to God. This would be a rather high standard and it would be plagued with rules – far beyond what we are capable of. The laws of Moses were written to show how far we fall short. The Laws were concerned with following stringent guidelines for salvation and because they couldn't be followed, a sacrifice was required.

The laws of Moses brought death. So, why would God bother creating them? He created them to show us that even the most Godly religion on the planet could not save itself. If you've read Leviticus you will see that a sacrifice is needed for just about everything – it's almost ridiculous. There was no degree of perfection that a person could reach that would make them righteousness enough to enter the Kingdom of God.

So, if a religion created by God cannot save people – what can?

One day we will stand spiritually naked before God - the only thing with us will be our hearts.

When we die, the flesh dies with us. We will stand spiritually nude before our God, our bad deeds will not condemn us and our good deeds will not save us. When we stand before God and He examines our heart, we won't be able to point back to something good we did in our life to justify ourselves.

So when a person stands before God and He calls them wicked – they can't point to their many charities. If their charity had been from their heart it would be evident on their heart but the act itself is inconsequential.

When we realize this, it's like being detached from the Matrix – We can see that nothing physical really matters and we can focus our attention on other things. When we take away the physical we can concentrate on the heart – we can truly evaluate the heart and strive to make it better.

So when Paul says that he died to the flesh – He acknowledged that the flesh was dead. When he said that He was alive in Christ he was saying that he lives spiritually, for spiritual reasons because the flesh didn't matter anymore.

We are still subject to the law because we are still in the flesh – but this is not a spiritual law. You could almost call it the law of nature. Simply by living I am guaranteed to die – simply by living I am sinning because I am in the flesh. My body is still subject to the law, so long as I am in the flesh, but I have accepted my death, laying down my life, putting my flesh to death.

Because I am dead already – things of the flesh do not matter to me anymore. My salvation has been handed to me so I live knowing that there is nothing in the flesh that I can do to attain or keep it, there is nothing in the flesh that I can do to loose it. Because I am free from the flesh, my actions are also free from the flesh.

If I am not satisfying my flesh and I am not striving to attain my free gift of salvation – then what is my motivation for doing anything at all? What is my motivation for following the laws of Moses?

Here is the beauty – because I am free from the flesh and because I accepted my free gift – I am FREE to do the things I do because I WANT to do them. Because my physical body is dead, I am not even subject to the laws of Moses anymore.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

Christianity is still obsessed with cleaning the outside of the cup but the inside of the cup goes unwashed because others cannot see it and if others cannot see it then why bother with it at all? Well, like I said before – the outside of your cup can be squeaky clean but if the inside of your cup is filthy – what good is it?

Why do we bother washing something that is only temporary and not wash what will be eternal?

We still have religion as our king – we look to it to save us but it cannot. Because we put our faith in religion and do things for religion – then that king will receive our reward...

Hmm... We know that God is a jealous God and will not tolerate any other god to even be in His general vicinity – so what will happen to the beast we know as religion? It will be cast into hell and with it our reward.

Without all the rewards sought through religion – will most still be able to stand?

It is in my humble opinion that Atheist can truly be better than any Christian. They don't follow any god to tell them what to do – what they do is through their own motives.

If we are judged based on what we know – and the world only knows the God of the Christians through the behavior of Christians and their doctrines (religion) – then when atheists deny that God based on what they see – yet still go out an do the good work that God would like to see – are they really denying the one true God or are they denying the god of religion.

When they are stripped of their flesh, just like everyone else, then they will simply be a heart and it will be that heart that is judged – not the religion they did or did not follow.

Just because they have denied a king, does it mean that they have denied The King?
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07-12-2013, 11:15 PM
Post: #2
RE: Out of our desire for a King.
Okay all that follows is my opinion, but...I honestly believe in all of it and think you should too:

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. ["ye that work iniquity" = "ye that work lawlessness", since Greek "anomia" means "lawlessness]

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." - Matthew 7:21-27

The belief that you can be saved inwardly and have your flesh remain inherently fallen forever, so depraved it must die off because it simply can't be saved, is not at all what Paul taught. It is what Gnosticism taught.

Paul taught about the laws that ruled his body-parts. It is this law of nature that makes our body naturally incapable of righteousness. But whosoever is sanctified is delivered from bondage to sin in the flesh too. And thus, the old flesh is killed, because the laws of sin are replaced with the laws of the Spirit, which sanctify the person, that he can not sin by nature.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." - 1 John 3:4-9

"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." - Romans 6:15-18

You can not serve both sin and God. If you are saved, you become a slave to righteousness: you simply can't sin. Sin is defined by the existence of the laws of God: and if these be written in your heart, the old laws of fallen nature purged out, your body will be a slave to the Holy Ghost, and to righteousness. You will not sin.

Salvation is from bondage to sin, not from guilt for sins committed!

It is impossible for the body to serve sin, irredeemably, and for the spirit to mystically be saved by God. This is pure and utter Gnosticism, and a false doctrine opposed by Christianity, both Catholic and Protestantism, for eighteen centuries. It was in the 19th century that the Plymouth Brethren began teaching this false belief, and they transferred it to Dwight L. Moody and the Scofield Bible, and then it got transferred to the early Fundamentalists, and from them to the New Evangelicals, or today's modern "mainstream Christianity".
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07-12-2013, 11:25 PM
Post: #3
RE: Out of our desire for a King.
We must free ourselves from our fleshly desires.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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