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Politics and Atheists
04-08-2010, 01:29 PM
Post: #1
Politics and Atheists
http://www.watchblog.com/democrats/archives/005181.html

Why is it that Atheism has such a negative stigma in regards to its involvement in American politics. IMO, it cant have anything to do with morals or ethics because some of the most corrupt polticians cling to religion as a scapegoat. It just seems unfair to those of non-belief or even moderate belief to only be represented by .2% in government, when their citizen count are in the upwards of 16-20% of the population.

Can anyone really explain this? Are atheists just afraid of getting involved in American Politics or... what?

Thanks,
The Todd
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04-08-2010, 02:02 PM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2010 02:03 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #2
RE: Politics and Atheists
(04-08-2010 01:29 PM)X_The Todd_X Wrote:  ...it cant have anything to do with morals or ethics because some of the most corrupt polticians cling to religion as a scapegoat...

The most corrupt politicians the modern world has ever seen have been the atheists of communist countries such as the former Soviet Union, China, Vietnam, Cuba, etc.

What scapegoat do they cling to?

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04-08-2010, 04:59 PM
Post: #3
RE: Politics and Atheists
Stereo, you're inferring that these evil leaders are are evil because of atheism, which is absolute hogwash. It's ridiculous to posit that someone can be evil because he doesn't believe a ghost created the Universe.

We would be 1,500 years ahead if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake
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04-08-2010, 09:17 PM
Post: #4
RE: Politics and Atheists
(04-08-2010 02:02 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  
(04-08-2010 01:29 PM)X_The Todd_X Wrote:  ...it cant have anything to do with morals or ethics because some of the most corrupt polticians cling to religion as a scapegoat...

The most corrupt politicians the modern world has ever seen have been the atheists of communist countries such as the former Soviet Union, China, Vietnam, Cuba, etc.

What scapegoat do they cling to?

First of all... Castro is one hell of a good guy... so don't rip on Cuba...

Now thats out of the way... i will have to say that communism, in and of itself, can function as a religion as it did in the USSR, China, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc. The structure of it is much like Christianity... The leader takes the place of a God, the commitee acts as the apostles, the military is the right arm, etc...

and you cant F**K with that kind of power... haha (oh lewis black...)

All joking aside...

While they can be associated with atheistic belief, atheism does not motivate them to be evil, its the power. And power alone. whereas the religious ones are often motivated to do evil through the medium of religion...

Ethinic cleansing
Saddam vs. Kurd- chemical warfare
Iraq vs. Iran- (Sunni vs. Shiite)- Chemical warfare
The crusades
the inquisition
Northern ireland
the iraq invasion

The commies preformed some nasty deeds, but look at the context. They took an ideology, much like a religion, and tried to export it. when the people failed to accept it, when the ideology failed... S**T happened.

for future use... try not to connect atheism to communism... while the commies claim to be atheist, they are not... communism is a religion all on its own.
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04-09-2010, 11:56 AM
Post: #5
RE: Politics and Atheists
First off, it's not obviously true that 10% of the population must be translated into similar numbers in government.

Secondly, unless there is a large group of non-believers who vote as a block in a district, they will always be outnumbered by the majority of believers.

Third, it's not necessarily the case that nonbelievers vote based on the single-issue of religious belief. Some may be fiscally conservative and be more concerned with how government wastes money than what they say they believe on Sunday.

Fourth, self-identifying atheists have a problem in that they aren't perceived as being "for" anything. The term "atheist" itself is simply a negation of something (in this case, belief). To run successfully, one needs to be "for" something, but an atheist will always have to defend her negative position regarding religion.

There's a lot of baggage associated with non-belief, not the least of which is the "atheist = communist = genocide" canard tossed up so often by Stereo and his ilk. While it would be nice to see more non-believers in government, if only for the increased diversity, it's not a major concern for me. Personally, I'd prefer a culture in which one's religion (or lack of same) was not even a factor, or even known or cared about. Till then, I'm more than willing to vote for believers so long as they are with me on the more pressing issues of the day.

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04-09-2010, 12:09 PM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2010 12:09 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #6
RE: Politics and Atheists
(04-09-2010 11:56 AM)MerryAtheist Wrote:  ...the "atheist = communist = genocide" canard tossed up so often by Stereo and his ilk...

So are you saying that the "theist = fascist = genocide" tossed up so often by atheists is also a canard?

But at any rate you are misrepresenting my views, as it seems atheists of your ilk are so often wont to do.

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04-09-2010, 12:55 PM
Post: #7
RE: Politics and Atheists
(04-09-2010 11:56 AM)MerryAtheist Wrote:  First off, it's not obviously true that 10% of the population must be translated into similar numbers in government.

Secondly, unless there is a large group of non-believers who vote as a block in a district, they will always be outnumbered by the majority of believers.

Third, it's not necessarily the case that nonbelievers vote based on the single-issue of religious belief. Some may be fiscally conservative and be more concerned with how government wastes money than what they say they believe on Sunday.

Fourth, self-identifying atheists have a problem in that they aren't perceived as being "for" anything. The term "atheist" itself is simply a negation of something (in this case, belief). To run successfully, one needs to be "for" something, but an atheist will always have to defend her negative position regarding religion.

There's a lot of baggage associated with non-belief, not the least of which is the "atheist = communist = genocide" canard tossed up so often by Stereo and his ilk. While it would be nice to see more non-believers in government, if only for the increased diversity, it's not a major concern for me. Personally, I'd prefer a culture in which one's religion (or lack of same) was not even a factor, or even known or cared about. Till then, I'm more than willing to vote for believers so long as they are with me on the more pressing issues of the day.

Thank you.
I have to say i DO agree with you on all points that you made. I would just like to comment on some of these points.

Point 1) i agree that a democracy does not always reflect the demographic of the population. However, should we not try and make it a more inclusive system? For the majority of American history our government has been run by white men who are of the protestant religion. thats only 1 viewpoint of a nation that has a multitude of different cultures, religions, etc.

What about a wholely secular viewpoint? void of any religious connection, would this not be a more inclusive political path?

The problem is that this nation has become used to the idea that a good person = a religious person. or that at the very least religiosity measures a persons moral and ethical value. it would just be nice to know that non-belief is accepted in government.

Point 2-4) understood... and i agree.

my problem lies with the requirement for any person who wants to serve in our government to be religious. And it seems a though as time progresses our country becomes completely engulfed with religious matters.... what church does Obama attend. Whats he doing for Easter .congressional prayer. etc...etc...etc... its sick. so much energy is wasted on matters like this that true issues are often neglected or at least not given the proper amount of time. And it pains me to know that as long as i identify myself with non-belief i will almost assuredly not be accepted as a politician. Its unfair and it reminds me of pre-civil rights attempts to get blacks into politics. or pre sufferage...

I would honestly give my life to see the day where religion is a non-issue in American politics. But im afraid that it will never happen. and that pains me to no end.

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04-09-2010, 01:01 PM
Post: #8
RE: Politics and Atheists
(04-08-2010 09:17 PM)X_The Todd_X Wrote:  ...try not to connect atheism to communism...

Can we connect state-enforced atheism to atheism?


(04-08-2010 09:17 PM)X_The Todd_X Wrote:  ...communism is a religion all on its own.

Yes, but atheists always gravitate to some sort of religion substitute, which then serves as their ideological world view.

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04-09-2010, 01:10 PM
Post: #9
RE: Politics and Atheists
Quote:Can we connect state-enforced atheism to atheism?
no

Quote:Yes, but atheists always gravitate to some sort of religion substitute, which then serves as their ideological world view.

Not every atheist. Religion is not something that is nessesary to have a world view. Religion isn't nessesary at all... some groups of people have lived without it since the dawn of time.
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04-09-2010, 01:44 PM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2010 01:49 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #10
RE: Politics and Atheists
(04-09-2010 01:10 PM)X_The Todd_X Wrote:  
Quote:Can we connect state-enforced atheism to atheism?
no

Well if we can't connect state-sponsored atheism to atheism, then you cannot opt for a double-standard and blame religion for state-sponsored violence.


(04-09-2010 01:10 PM)X_The Todd_X Wrote:  
Quote:Yes, but atheists always gravitate to some sort of religion substitute, which then serves as their ideological world view.

Not every atheist. Religion is not something that is nessesary to have a world view. Religion isn't nessesary at all... some groups of people have lived without it since the dawn of time.

Everyone has either a religion or a religion substitute. In the case of atheists, they usually side with Timothy McVeigh in using science as their religion.

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