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Prayer?
01-27-2009, 11:36 AM (This post was last modified: 01-27-2009 11:38 AM by Urthred.)
Post: #1
Prayer?
Why do people pray? It seems that in most religions the God/gods are all knowing, all seeing and if thats true wouldnt they already know what you want, and have either decided wether or not you get it. So in prayer your basically trying to persuade these all knowing, all seeing beings into changing their divine plans to fit your whims. How arrogant to you have to be to try and persuade God/gods?

"Perhaps you've seen them only then you've just believed
And when they're fleeing then you feel you've been deceived
But in that feeling something ancient's been retrieved"
-Jack Hardy
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01-27-2009, 12:54 PM
Post: #2
RE: Prayer?
(01-27-2009 11:36 AM)Urthred Wrote:  Why do people pray? It seems that in most religions the God/gods are all knowing, all seeing and if thats true wouldnt they already know what you want, and have either decided wether or not you get it. So in prayer your basically trying to persuade these all knowing, all seeing beings into changing their divine plans to fit your whims. How arrogant to you have to be to try and persuade God/gods?
Well that's an interesting question Urthred. I guess it comes down to how you define prayer. If you think of God as some gigantic magician there to fill your personal wish list then yes I'd agree. For the Christian prayer is not about this. It is about relationship. If you love someone then you talk to them. And if they love you they talk back. Look at Abraham's conversation with God concerning Sodom & Gommorah it was a two way exchange. God initiated it though He must aldeady have known what was in Abraham's heart it seems He delighted in the relationship and used it to reveal more about His character to Abraham. At the end of it we note that God went to these two notorious cities looking for an excuse not to destroy them, not the other way around.

When I pray I look for a response from God. I know He knows my inner most thoughts but it helps me to express them to Him. Moreover, I find that He responds and I am drawn deeper into the relationship because of that. I caste all my cares upon Him in prayer because He cares for me and tells me to pray. That being the case my obedience is not arrogance. Smile

"Love is not a feeling, it's an act of your will." Don Francisco.
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01-27-2009, 08:08 PM (This post was last modified: 01-27-2009 08:09 PM by B MAN.)
Post: #3
RE: Prayer?
(01-27-2009 11:36 AM)Urthred Wrote:  Why do people pray? It seems that in most religions the God/gods are all knowing, all seeing and if thats true wouldnt they already know what you want, and have either decided wether or not you get it. So in prayer your basically trying to persuade these all knowing, all seeing beings into changing their divine plans to fit your whims. How arrogant to you have to be to try and persuade God/gods?
i agree...prayer is completely useless. if anything it is just a sign of respect for your god...
(01-27-2009 12:54 PM)Pilgrim Wrote:  
(01-27-2009 11:36 AM)Urthred Wrote:  Why do people pray? It seems that in most religions the God/gods are all knowing, all seeing and if thats true wouldnt they already know what you want, and have either decided wether or not you get it. So in prayer your basically trying to persuade these all knowing, all seeing beings into changing their divine plans to fit your whims. How arrogant to you have to be to try and persuade God/gods?
Well that's an interesting question Urthred. I guess it comes down to how you define prayer. If you think of God as some gigantic magician there to fill your personal wish list then yes I'd agree. For the Christian prayer is not about this. It is about relationship. If you love someone then you talk to them. And if they love you they talk back. Look at Abraham's conversation with God concerning Sodom & Gommorah it was a two way exchange. God initiated it though He must aldeady have known what was in Abraham's heart it seems He delighted in the relationship and used it to reveal more about His character to Abraham. At the end of it we note that God went to these two notorious cities looking for an excuse not to destroy them, not the other way around.

When I pray I look for a response from God. I know He knows my inner most thoughts but it helps me to express them to Him. Moreover, I find that He responds and I am drawn deeper into the relationship because of that. I caste all my cares upon Him in prayer because He cares for me and tells me to pray. That being the case my obedience is not arrogance. Smile
sorry, i have never, under any circumstances, heard god communicate with me.
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01-28-2009, 04:43 AM (This post was last modified: 01-28-2009 04:45 AM by Pilgrim.)
Post: #4
RE: Prayer?
(01-27-2009 08:08 PM)B MAN Wrote:  
(01-27-2009 11:36 AM)Urthred Wrote:  Why do people pray? It seems that in most religions the God/gods are all knowing, all seeing and if thats true wouldnt they already know what you want, and have either decided wether or not you get it. So in prayer your basically trying to persuade these all knowing, all seeing beings into changing their divine plans to fit your whims. How arrogant to you have to be to try and persuade God/gods?
i agree...prayer is completely useless. if anything it is just a sign of respect for your god...
(01-27-2009 12:54 PM)Pilgrim Wrote:  
(01-27-2009 11:36 AM)Urthred Wrote:  Why do people pray? It seems that in most religions the God/gods are all knowing, all seeing and if thats true wouldnt they already know what you want, and have either decided wether or not you get it. So in prayer your basically trying to persuade these all knowing, all seeing beings into changing their divine plans to fit your whims. How arrogant to you have to be to try and persuade God/gods?
Well that's an interesting question Urthred. I guess it comes down to how you define prayer. If you think of God as some gigantic magician there to fill your personal wish list then yes I'd agree. For the Christian prayer is not about this. It is about relationship. If you love someone then you talk to them. And if they love you they talk back. Look at Abraham's conversation with God concerning Sodom & Gommorah it was a two way exchange. God initiated it though He must aldeady have known what was in Abraham's heart it seems He delighted in the relationship and used it to reveal more about His character to Abraham. At the end of it we note that God went to these two notorious cities looking for an excuse not to destroy them, not the other way around.

When I pray I look for a response from God. I know He knows my inner most thoughts but it helps me to express them to Him. Moreover, I find that He responds and I am drawn deeper into the relationship because of that. I caste all my cares upon Him in prayer because He cares for me and tells me to pray. That being the case my obedience is not arrogance. Smile
sorry, i have never, under any circumstances, heard god communicate with me.
Hmmm....well maybe that's because you find prayer a waste of time and energy B MAN and therefore don't bother with it? If you dismiss something at the outset you set up the parameters of a self-fullfilling prophesy no? Admitedly, I do see the acceptance of Christ as a pre-requisite to having a two way active communication though. Wink

God bless

Pilgrim Smile

"Love is not a feeling, it's an act of your will." Don Francisco.
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01-28-2009, 07:13 PM
Post: #5
RE: Prayer?
(01-28-2009 04:43 AM)Pilgrim Wrote:  
(01-27-2009 08:08 PM)B MAN Wrote:  
(01-27-2009 11:36 AM)Urthred Wrote:  Why do people pray? It seems that in most religions the God/gods are all knowing, all seeing and if thats true wouldnt they already know what you want, and have either decided wether or not you get it. So in prayer your basically trying to persuade these all knowing, all seeing beings into changing their divine plans to fit your whims. How arrogant to you have to be to try and persuade God/gods?
i agree...prayer is completely useless. if anything it is just a sign of respect for your god...
(01-27-2009 12:54 PM)Pilgrim Wrote:  
(01-27-2009 11:36 AM)Urthred Wrote:  Why do people pray? It seems that in most religions the God/gods are all knowing, all seeing and if thats true wouldnt they already know what you want, and have either decided wether or not you get it. So in prayer your basically trying to persuade these all knowing, all seeing beings into changing their divine plans to fit your whims. How arrogant to you have to be to try and persuade God/gods?
Well that's an interesting question Urthred. I guess it comes down to how you define prayer. If you think of God as some gigantic magician there to fill your personal wish list then yes I'd agree. For the Christian prayer is not about this. It is about relationship. If you love someone then you talk to them. And if they love you they talk back. Look at Abraham's conversation with God concerning Sodom & Gommorah it was a two way exchange. God initiated it though He must aldeady have known what was in Abraham's heart it seems He delighted in the relationship and used it to reveal more about His character to Abraham. At the end of it we note that God went to these two notorious cities looking for an excuse not to destroy them, not the other way around.

When I pray I look for a response from God. I know He knows my inner most thoughts but it helps me to express them to Him. Moreover, I find that He responds and I am drawn deeper into the relationship because of that. I caste all my cares upon Him in prayer because He cares for me and tells me to pray. That being the case my obedience is not arrogance. Smile
sorry, i have never, under any circumstances, heard god communicate with me.
Hmmm....well maybe that's because you find prayer a waste of time and energy B MAN and therefore don't bother with it? If you dismiss something at the outset you set up the parameters of a self-fullfilling prophesy no? Admitedly, I do see the acceptance of Christ as a pre-requisite to having a two way active communication though. Wink

God bless

Pilgrim Smile
no, when i was younger i believed and got pissed when god wouldn't answer me.

further more, ask god a question in which you do not know the answer to. ask him the answer of 2 random 3 digit numbers. take the answer, write it down, and check it.
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01-29-2009, 04:56 AM (This post was last modified: 01-29-2009 05:06 AM by Pilgrim.)
Post: #6
RE: Prayer?
B MAN Wrote:
Quote:no, when i was younger i believed and got pissed when god wouldn't answer me.[quote] Maybe He did but it wasn't an answer you were prepared to accept my friend *soft smile* I suspect you have not forgiven Him for whatever it was. Usually when I'm in distress about something the first answer I get is simply 'Trust Me'

[quote] further more, ask god a question in which you do not know the answer to. ask him the answer of 2 random 3 digit numbers. take the answer, write it down, and check it.
*chuckles* I'm not even sure I'd know how to go about that B MAN math was never my forte *grin* That apart, why on Earth would I waste my time on such a useless exercise? Only if I wanted some proof or sign that He existed I expect. But I don't. I have in the past laid fleeces before Him regarding certain things and received very clear answers to them. More often I'm sorry to say I've not bothered to do that and have simply leaped without looking first, as it were and paid the price for my foolishness and impetuousity. My prayer life is about relationship not challenging God to prove His existence or justify Himself and I suspect that is why I get proof all the time. You can experience this for yourself. You don't have to take my word for it. All you need to do is go to God in prayer recognising that you sin and have sinned and that this has caused both you and others pain including God and ask that Jesus sacrifice be applied to you. Effectively you ask God to save you from yourself by believing that Jesus died for you personally so that you might be forgiven and saved. At that point the Holy Spirit will come to dwell within you at your very core and your life will be revolutionised. It's really that simple and testable. He's looking for excuses to forgive and have a personal relationship based on mutual trust not condemn. He knows your doubts, fears , hangups and all your faults better than you do and says I don't care where you've been I'm here now if you will simply trust me and accept my invitation. But He leaves the decision up to you my friend. He wont force it.

God Bless

Pilgrim Smile

"Love is not a feeling, it's an act of your will." Don Francisco.
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01-29-2009, 08:26 PM
Post: #7
RE: Prayer?
i think prayer is a great gift given to us. i remember when i prayed not the well known god prayer it was something else i was asking for him to show me the true meaning of why we are here and to be honest ever since that prayer i ahve never been the same im not a christian nor islamic and i cant be a jew but that prayer i think is being answered in bits.
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01-30-2009, 03:37 AM
Post: #8
RE: Prayer?
But if hes all knowing and all seeing wouldnt he know wether or not you accept the invitation? if so then all your really doing is preforming a play for this great god in the sky in which case there is no free will so again the outcome is already decided wether or not you prayed or not casues no change in that.

"Perhaps you've seen them only then you've just believed
And when they're fleeing then you feel you've been deceived
But in that feeling something ancient's been retrieved"
-Jack Hardy
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01-30-2009, 04:29 AM
Post: #9
RE: Prayer?
(01-30-2009 03:37 AM)Urthred Wrote:  But if hes all knowing and all seeing wouldnt he know wether or not you accept the invitation? if so then all your really doing is preforming a play for this great god in the sky in which case there is no free will so again the outcome is already decided wether or not you prayed or not casues no change in that.
*smiles* I see what you're saying Urthred but for me the problem is not one of whether God knows or does not know what I'm going to say before I say it. Again it comes down to relationship. It's like two people that both know with absolute certainty that they love each other? Regardless of their knowledge they still like to hear it said and still like to communicate that love because that is the nature of their relationship. God is not some distant abstract 'up there in the sky' as you put it, for me. He has chosen to make my body His dwelling place through the Holy Spirit. He is ever with me, near not far even when I don't apprehend it. Because of His character I am drawn ever deeper toward Him and in relationship with Him. He is my Heavenly Father, my Abba (Daddy) and He delights in our relationship. I cannot explain why He does, other than because He loves me which He demonstrates by means not only of sending Jesus to die for my sin but within the active two way, intimate relationship He has established. I still have free-will because I still have the power and choice to say no to Him. This is my right which He will not take away from me. Prayer is not necessary to Him in the sense that of course He already knows but is His gift and blessing to me so that I may delight in Him and be encouraged. Is that such a bad or meaningless thing? Smile

God bless

Pilgrim Smile

"Love is not a feeling, it's an act of your will." Don Francisco.
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01-30-2009, 05:27 AM
Post: #10
RE: Prayer?
free will again m8.maybe you should get some.

Good evil salvation
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