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Questions that seem to never be discussed in Church
10-27-2009, 01:32 PM
Post: #1
Questions that seem to never be discussed in Church
Hi i am new to this forum. I was raised a Christian. While at college I took religion classes based on history and learned a lot, especially about other religions. Now I have been pondering some questions and would like to see if you guys to help me out.

1) What makes Christianity right and every other religion wrong?
I know the Bible is supposed to be the word of God and that is what everyone basis their believes on. But what makes the Bible right and the Quron wrong or any other book that is claimed to be all knowing.

2) Judisiam was first, then from that came Christianity, after that came Islam. All based on the same God and some of the same Prophets. Why has there not been new books added to the Bible based on the Quron? The new testament was added to the Turoh.

3) What about the Lost books of the Bible. There were written by some of the same writers. Just bc there were not chosen to be in the cannon, by the leaders at the time. Does that mean that they are not important or true?

4) Will there ever be any new books added to the Bible? Im assuming God did not stop making mericals after Revelations was written. Has he not interfered with people today.

5) How can we be so sure that we are right? The Egyptians, Greeks and Romans all followed their religions for centuries and they were wrong. I understand its called Faith for a reason but did they not have the same Faith in their religions.

6) Are we supposed to take every story in the Bible literay? Did the red sea really part? Did Noah really build an ark with all the animals and survive the rain storm?
These stories can sound as outrageous as the old stories of many other religions. If they did take place, why has God stopped interferring? Why do we not have prophets that have powers in todays time?

Just some questions that were on my mind. I'm sure there is more. Would love to hear some expert opinions on this. Thank You.

Josh
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10-28-2009, 02:42 PM (This post was last modified: 10-28-2009 02:42 PM by GTseng3.)
Post: #2
RE: Questions that seem to never be discussed in Church
Let me preface this. I'm an atheist, though I was raised Christian. I became an atheist in part because I started asking these questions.

(10-27-2009 01:32 PM)jswain0411 Wrote:  1) What makes Christianity right and every other religion wrong?
I know the Bible is supposed to be the word of God and that is what everyone basis their believes on. But what makes the Bible right and the Quron wrong or any other book that is claimed to be all knowing.

Nothing. There is no experience in Christianity that is not mimicked by the experiences of the faithful of other religions. There is no teaching of Christianity that is not found somewhere else. Christianity is contradictory and false, often misogynistic and backward, and so are most other religions. The conclusion one is forced to come to is either all of these experiences are true, leading to an "all gods lead to the true god" philosophy, or else none of them are true.

Quote:2) Judisiam was first, then from that came Christianity, after that came Islam. All based on the same God and some of the same Prophets. Why has there not been new books added to the Bible based on the Quron? The new testament was added to the Turoh.

Actually, you should check out the Mormons for that. Their books were added by Joseph Smith a relatively short time ago. He claimed to have translated at least part of them from an ancient tablet thing, if I recall correctly, but a lot of it he wrote through what he considered divine revelation. So it's not like there was anything particularly special about Christianity or Islam. Throughout history new "gospels" have been discovered. Most were revealed to be forgeries, written around the time of their "discovery".

Quote:3) What about the Lost books of the Bible. There were written by some of the same writers. Just bc there were not chosen to be in the cannon, by the leaders at the time. Does that mean that they are not important or true?

That depends on how much you trust church councils. Parousia is the one you should talk to about that, he's got a nearly encyclopediac knowledge of when the extra-canonical books were actually written (or probably actually written.) Keep in mind the Gospels themselves weren't written until after AD 70 at the earliest.

I guess you could also just look them up on Wikipedia. Keep in mind that whenever you research things on Wikipedia, check the sources.

Quote:4) Will there ever be any new books added to the Bible? Im assuming God did not stop making mericals after Revelations was written. Has he not interfered with people today.

As I noted, there are constantly new books being added by this sect or that to the Bible. Mainstream Christians believe that the final verses of Revelation close out the Bible, but then it is only fiat that places Revelation in that position. As an atheist, I do not believe that miracles ever occurred. I think the whole thing was man-made, and that the reason god does not create any more miracles today is because he never did in the first place. Miracles in the bible are simply mythical stories.
Quote:5) How can we be so sure that we are right? The Egyptians, Greeks and Romans all followed their religions for centuries and they were wrong. I understand its called Faith for a reason but did they not have the same Faith in their religions.

You can't be sure. And their faith was just as strong, if not stronger than yours. That is why faith is a very poor indicator of truth. Fact and reason should be used to divine truth. We live in a fantastic era, where scientific advancement has actually revealed most of the workings of the universe to us. Evolution has been observed in the lab. We have seen the cycle of starbirth to death. We have mapped the Cosmic Microwave Background which reveals the Big Bang. These are all things known to science. Belief in a mythical god not only becomes unnecessary, it is contradictory to these observed facts.

Quote:6) Are we supposed to take every story in the Bible literay? Did the red sea really part? Did Noah really build an ark with all the animals and survive the rain storm?
These stories can sound as outrageous as the old stories of many other religions. If they did take place, why has God stopped interferring? Why do we not have prophets that have powers in todays time?

Well, there are several ways to look at it. First of all, if you take these stories literally Christianity is false. Fundamentalist Christians (like what I was before) are taught that science supports a literal bible. This is quite simply a bunch of hooey, spread through the lies of vile men like Ken Ham and the Creation Research Institute, and others. Science actually directly contradicts a literal biblical reading of Genesis 1-8 (creation through the flood). This is not scientific speculation, these are solid theories with an overabundance of evidence. The theory of evolution is actually used now to accurately predict breakthroughs in genetics and biology, and all modern cosmology is based upon an inherently atheistic theory of the universe. So a literal bible is quite simply impossible, no matter what the fanatics tell you (if you want more evidence, there are two people on YouTube who have made a series of fascinating videos. One is "cdk007" and the other is "thunderf00t". Look at their YouTube videos. I will worn you that thunderf00t has a bit of an axe to grind against creationists, but despite his contrary attitude his science is pretty much dead on. cdk007 is who I would recommend first. As always, don't trust them, but listen to what they have to say and then think about it yourself.)

So we are left with having to take the bible figuratively. And yet this too presents problems, because so much of the bible that we have to take figuratively was obviously meant to be read literally. The literal creation is referred to again and again, throughout the bible and even into the New Testament. And if we deny that, what about stories that are denied by archeological evidence, like the day the sun stood still or the Exodus from Egypt? We have to begin suspecting any portion of the bible that doesn't seem to make sense, and wonder if that wasn't meant to be taken as a parable or a figurative story.

The major problem with that, however, is the part of the bible that makes the least sense is the existence of god, and the divinity of Jesus. So once we are already taking all these mythical parts of the bible to be just that: figurative myth, and not truth, then why do we not take the next logical step and deny all the supernatural stories in the bible? The bible then becomes a fascinating and very instructive handbook on morality (if you ignore the misogyny, the homophobia, and the violence,) and an even more instructive window into life in Palestine for the last few millennia BCE.

But of course once you take that step, you're an atheist.

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10-28-2009, 05:16 PM
Post: #3
RE: Questions that seem to never be discussed in Church
(10-28-2009 02:42 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  
(10-27-2009 01:32 PM)jswain0411 Wrote:  3) What about the Lost books of the Bible. There were written by some of the same writers. Just bc there were not chosen to be in the cannon, by the leaders at the time. Does that mean that they are not important or true?

That depends on how much you trust church councils. Parousia is the one you should talk to about that, he's got a nearly encyclopediac knowledge of when the extra-canonical books were actually written (or probably actually written.) Keep in mind the Gospels themselves weren't written until after AD 70 at the earliest.

I guess you could also just look them up on Wikipedia. Keep in mind that whenever you research things on Wikipedia, check the sources.

Now it's my turn to blush, GT! Smile

The process of creating a canon began in the mid 2nd century and continued until the end of the 4th century before there was a solid consensus. There were four major criteria that were employed:

1. Antiquity. With the exception of the Gospel of John that just missed the 'deadline', all the books in the canon were completed before the end of the 1st century. The vast majority of the non-canonical works were written later than this.

2. Popularity. The books of the NT were originally simply things that were read at church gatherings. The familiar NT books especially the Epistles of Paul and the Four Gospels, were the most widely read. We may note in passing, and revisit later, that the Gnostic works were 'secret', not for general consumption.

3. Theology. The works selected had to be at least compatible with the ongoing evolution of Christian theology. We may have a hard time finding some of the tenets of Christianity clearly stated in the NT, such as the divinity of Jesus or the Trinity. But neither are there any blatant contradictions. And the central rite and belief, the sacrifice of the cross and the resurrection, are spelled out clearly by Paul.

4. Seriousness. Some of the works that circulated outside church meetings were quite popular, but they were generally off the wall to some degree or other. Examples: The antics of a five year old Jesus who kills playmates in a fit of anger, then resurrects them. Or the 'miracle duel' between Peter and Simon Magus in which Peter raises a smoked tuna from the dead.


It was not fully appreciated until this century when a cache of suppressed books were discovered at Nag Hammadi just how widespread Gnosticism was. The decline of Gnosticism as a rival to proto-orthodox Christianity was due to several causes. The biggest of these was active suppression by the church, although this was still well before Constantine gave the church power.

But Gnosticism had several features within itself that prevented it becoming a well established movement:

1. It was a ‘secret’ sect. Only certain adults who were considered spiritually mature were let in on the ‘secret’.

2. The ‘secret’ was supposedly passed done by word of mouth from the Apostles or received directly from God by some holy man. This resulted in a lack of a single coherent belief system.

3. The concentration on adults meant that children were not taught the secret, whereas in mainstream Christianity, children were indoctrinated almost from birth, ensuring continued propagation.

4. Gnostics frowned on hierarchical organizations, again leading to lost opportunities for propagation.

5. At the heart of Gnosticism was the idea that Jesus was purely divine or at least angelic. This went against the very humanist tendencies of the Greek branch of Christianity, which was the most active in the early years.

6. In general, Gnosticism rejected the Jewish scriptures and even the Jewish God. Mainstream Christianity embraced the Jewish scriptures. This gave an air of ancient authority to Christianity. In the dime a dozen cult atmosphere of the Roman Empire, this counted for a lot.


There were also some Jesus followers who remained essentially Jewish. Their works were much fewer and were mostly adaptations of the canonical Gospels but with the supernatural aspects mostly removed. They believed Jesus was the Messiah but only human. They basically got marginalized by the spread of the new rabbinic Judaism that arose after the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.

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10-30-2009, 01:04 PM (This post was last modified: 10-30-2009 01:08 PM by todd_vetter33.)
Post: #4
RE: Questions that seem to never be discussed in Church
(10-27-2009 01:32 PM)jswain0411 Wrote:  Hi i am new to this forum. I was raised a Christian. While at college I took religion classes based on history and learned a lot, especially about other religions. Now I have been pondering some questions and would like to see if you guys to help me out.

1) What makes Christianity right and every other religion wrong?
I know the Bible is supposed to be the word of God and that is what everyone basis their believes on. But what makes the Bible right and the Quron wrong or any other book that is claimed to be all knowing.

2) Judisiam was first, then from that came Christianity, after that came Islam. All based on the same God and some of the same Prophets. Why has there not been new books added to the Bible based on the Quron? The new testament was added to the Turoh.

3) What about the Lost books of the Bible. There were written by some of the same writers. Just bc there were not chosen to be in the cannon, by the leaders at the time. Does that mean that they are not important or true?

4) Will there ever be any new books added to the Bible? Im assuming God did not stop making mericals after Revelations was written. Has he not interfered with people today.

5) How can we be so sure that we are right? The Egyptians, Greeks and Romans all followed their religions for centuries and they were wrong. I understand its called Faith for a reason but did they not have the same Faith in their religions.

6) Are we supposed to take every story in the Bible literay? Did the red sea really part? Did Noah really build an ark with all the animals and survive the rain storm?
These stories can sound as outrageous as the old stories of many other religions. If they did take place, why has God stopped interferring? Why do we not have prophets that have powers in todays time?

Just some questions that were on my mind. I'm sure there is more. Would love to hear some expert opinions on this. Thank You.

Josh

1. Christianity is all about self rightousness and judging others. It's supposed to be each person judging themselves against the Law of God. It's for this reason that Christianity is divided and void of the spirit of God.

2. The new covenant started by Christ was to be the spirit of God written on the heart of men in truth. The feebble half truth recordings in the NT bible or even the book of Islam are just a handful of the many false teachings that plauge the world today. Find God within you. those of the truth will hear the voice of God.

3. Keep the commandments of God for this is mans all.... The many books of the bible are supposed to teach man the importance of keeping the Law of God. The man jesus who was born again on the day of his baptism of Water (repentance by the Law) and Spirit, was the firstborn human from the dead and showed others that the Law was Good for salvation by receiving the Christ(spirit annointing). There were many on the day of Pentacost who received this same annointing and it's for this reason that Jesus was the firstborn among many brethren. The bible gospel of John calls Jesus the only begotton which at the time of Christ's ministry was a true statement. After petacost however.. many were born from the dead also when they received the spirit of God inside them.

4. The bible is already historically an ever changing book that leads to the denominational confusions of men. Do you want more writings of men or do you seek to be a living epistle for God by keeping the Law, receiving the spirit of God and having God work the promised miracles through you?

5. I can assure you that blind faith is a doctrine of the blind, for the blind, to lead the blind to no-where! God has a witness of his son (prophecy).. it's for this reason you need the spirit of God in you if you want to take the gospel to the world in full truth. The Christian world is void of the living water that fills you and it's for this reason the only thing they are taking to the world is separation/denominational confusion built on a book that has led them to mulitiple speculations.

6. Seek the God who speaks to his children and he can give you a solid answer to these questions. Even better, He can show you the events.

God Bless

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10-31-2009, 06:33 PM
Post: #5
RE: Questions that seem to never be discussed in Church
(10-27-2009 01:32 PM)jswain0411 Wrote:  1) What makes Christianity right and every other religion wrong?
I know the Bible is supposed to be the word of God and that is what everyone basis their believes on. But what makes the Bible right and the Quron wrong or any other book that is claimed to be all knowing.
The question iss far too broad, just about every point of doctrine in Christianity has an opposing view also found somewhere in Christianity and thay cannot all be right so from thar perspective Christianity is no more right or wrong than any other religion. I don't believe that the Bible has made it the many hundreds of years without suffering critical mis-translations either by accident, mistake, or design - simply too much time has passed and too many translations not to mention things lost in translation.I believe that a person needs to look beyond ancient scripture and seek for the presense of God and His authority in modern times.He spoke through modern prophets then, why would one suppose He would not do so now?

Quote:2) Judisiam was first, then from that came Christianity, after that came Islam. All based on the same God and some of the same Prophets. Why has there not been new books added to the Bible based on the Quron? The new testament was added to the Turoh.

I believe that there are new scriptures to be had. I also believe that deity had nothing to do with the creation of the Quo'ran and that the Bible was written in the language of an ancient people for the time of an ancient people and, although the Gospel has not changed, modern updates to the language and methods of teaching are criticle and until a person finds such writings they cannot rise above the sea of Christian turmolt presently being suffered in the world.

Quote:3) What about the Lost books of the Bible. There were written by some of the same writers. Just bc there were not chosen to be in the cannon, by the leaders at the time. Does that mean that they are not important or true?

I believe that modern scripture written to come forth in these last days precludes the need for any further books for the Bible.

Quote:4) Will there ever be any new books added to the Bible? Im assuming God did not stop making mericals after Revelations was written. Has he not interfered with people today.

Interfered? No, interacted - Yes, on many different levels.

Quote:5) How can we be so sure that we are right? The Egyptians, Greeks and Romans all followed their religions for centuries and they were wrong. I understand its called Faith for a reason but did they not have the same Faith in their religions.

A close relationship with reality, for me reality means God, can ensure that a person's feet are firmly planted on the Gospel sod that leads back to the presence of the Father. Worrying about what other people have done or are doing is interesting but pointless when it somes to you and the path you choose. You can learn from others but the choice is ultimatly yours. You will never be able to blame another for your mistakes.

Quote:6) Are we supposed to take every story in the Bible literay? Did the red sea really part? Did Noah really build an ark with all the animals and survive the rain storm?
These stories can sound as outrageous as the old stories of many other religions. If they did take place, why has God stopped interferring? Why do we not have prophets that have powers in todays time?

Remember, the bible covers over a 4500 year period, if you take the prophets and seperate out those who performed these great miracles and then spread them throughout the Bible you will find that they were few and very far between so your question could be asked in any age at any time and be just as valid as it is today, therefore so could the idea that a prophet could be her amoung us and not be performing any great physical miracles. As for how far we should go in believing the stories, well, lets just say that the ideas came across and exactly how the stories must be interprited must be left up to the minds eye of the person listening. Personally I do believe the Red Sea parted at Moses's command as he weilded the power of the priesthood. The extent of the flooding and what it meant to have two of every creature on the arch I do not know but as I said, it is really not that important.

Quote:Just some questions that were on my mind. I'm sure there is more. Would love to hear some expert opinions on this. Thank You.

Josh
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11-01-2009, 12:16 PM
Post: #6
RE: Questions that seem to never be discussed in Church
(10-28-2009 02:42 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  So we are left with having to take the bible figuratively. And yet this too presents problems, because so much of the bible that we have to take figuratively was obviously meant to be read literally. The literal creation is referred to again and again, throughout the bible and even into the New Testament. And if we deny that, what about stories that are denied by archeological evidence, like the day the sun stood still or the Exodus from Egypt? We have to begin suspecting any portion of the bible that doesn't seem to make sense, and wonder if that wasn't meant to be taken as a parable or a figurative story.

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11-01-2009, 12:22 PM
Post: #7
RE: Questions that seem to never be discussed in Church
A. Not big enough. A ship of the dimensions described in the bible simply would not be able to be manufactured, nor would it float.

B. Highly sketchy evidence that has already been debunked in countless places. Google it.

C. Wouldn't matter anyway, because the geological record makes it clear that there was never a worldwide flood.

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11-16-2009, 08:05 AM (This post was last modified: 11-16-2009 08:05 AM by TheSoul.)
Post: #8
RE: Questions that seem to never be discussed in Church
A: Then why was it made.

B: The Noah's ark was mentioned in the news if it was a fake? So no it has not been debunked since it dates back to thousands of years ago.

C: When the ice melted in the ice age, yes their would have been a flood.
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11-17-2009, 03:16 AM
Post: #9
RE: Questions that seem to never be discussed in Church
(11-16-2009 08:05 AM)TheSoul Wrote:  A: Then why was it made.

B: The Noah's ark was mentioned in the news if it was a fake? So no it has not been debunked since it dates back to thousands of years ago.

C: When the ice melted in the ice age, yes their would have been a flood.

So now Noah is Pre-Historically old!
Wow, maybe we did all come from Mars!
or perhaps a man invented time Travel and became God!

Any way I am still Monotheist.

I believe that Any Thing is Possible, but that doesn't mean any thing will Happen!

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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12-05-2009, 07:09 AM
Post: #10
RE: Questions that seem to never be discussed in Church
(11-17-2009 03:16 AM)Azrael17 Wrote:  
(11-16-2009 08:05 AM)TheSoul Wrote:  A: Then why was it made.

B: The Noah's ark was mentioned in the news if it was a fake? So no it has not been debunked since it dates back to thousands of years ago.

C: When the ice melted in the ice age, yes their would have been a flood.

So now Noah is Pre-Historically old!
Wow, maybe we did all come from Mars!
or perhaps a man invented time Travel and became God!

Any way I am still Monotheist.

I believe that Any Thing is Possible, but that doesn't mean any thing will Happen!

You are exactly right as anything can be possible too but it is not neccessary that anything can happen. As yes there was a flood and it was very deep too about 2,000 feet of Ice dam blocked the Clark Fork River.

Thanks

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