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Real Presence.....Protestant's Comments Only Please
11-28-2008, 04:46 PM
Post: #1
Real Presence.....Protestant's Comments Only Please
John 6:[27] Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of man will give to you; for on him has God the Father set his seal."

[55] For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

[53] So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

What is this food which we are to work for for which endures to eternal life?

What does Jesus mean that His flesh is true food and His blood is true drink?

What does Jesus mean that by eating this food, eating His flesh, we have life within us?

If the Eucharist-or the Lord's Supper as some call it-isn't really the true presence of Christ how do you explain these passages?

"I find your lack of faith disturbing..."-Darth Vader
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12-16-2008, 12:37 PM (This post was last modified: 12-16-2008 12:38 PM by Anglican.)
Post: #2
RE: Real Presence.....Protestant's Comments Only Please
Speaking as an Anglican, it is transubstantiation I have trouble with, not the real presence. It is only Roman Catholics who think they are synonyms. Transubstantiation is untenable because the aristotlean physics which it presupposes are no longer tenable - in the light of modern physics.
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03-13-2009, 05:13 PM
Post: #3
RE: Real Presence.....Protestant's Comments Only Please
(11-28-2008 04:46 PM)The Grey Pilgrim Wrote:  Hello just new on this board
John 6:[27] Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of man will give to you; for on him has God the Father set his seal."

right now dont have bibe with me, Jesus the Living Bread, Jesus the Living Water etc, one never thrist in Him, He not a image of bread food or so, then taking that to mean the Grace of Holy Spirit pour in you.

[55] For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

older version said do this in rememberace of me. full stop not half story or as modern versions changing words sometime do ombissions.

[53] So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

do you know liertually mean? (by the way yes i misspell, incase pick on me for it) we he said this people still alive and sinners. take same perspective on eating his flesh and drink. most of bible perspective like this only mean one thing inward inner man.

What is this food which we are to work for for which endures to eternal life? Salvation by free gift. because Jesus died by his choice pure Lamb too pure price of us to able pay till he came and died alive again.

What does Jesus mean that His flesh is true food and His blood is true drink? in that He the only way in heaven. Im the living Bread. Light.Water.Lamb.Rock etc

What does Jesus mean that by eating this food, eating His flesh, we have life within us? do this in remebrace of me Jesus said as well ulness you can said it wrong or not brother to respone this bit.

eating flesh !!!
If the Eucharist-or the Lord's Supper as some call it-isn't really the true presence of Christ how do you explain these passages?


i think it kind of silly to refuse understand the meaning of literally at all if person can understand that no problem in oringal world. that aside, the side of this belief is the assumption that seem to be that, everyone aumtomically all are saved sealed by God by this Eucharist by man hands.
born again in spirit and water first believe in his name, the unearned salvation then the Lord Supper,( by the workings in faith inward or inner man as a Christian.) but as Jesus warned ulness you born again etc etc you know the rest.
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04-09-2009, 10:05 AM
Post: #4
RE: Real Presence.....Protestant's Comments Only Please
(12-16-2008 12:37 PM)Anglican Wrote:  Speaking as an Anglican, it is transubstantiation I have trouble with, not the real presence. It is only Roman Catholics who think they are synonyms. Transubstantiation is untenable because the aristotlean physics which it presupposes are no longer tenable - in the light of modern physics.
It is a Pleasure to meet you..
You said.. "Mondern Physics" tells you it is impossible!
I reply... "You are funny"!
NOTE:... "It takes FAITH!!!!!!"
When Jesus tells the Catholic..."HE CAN" make his body and blood; "LOOK,TASTE and SMELL" as bread and wine: Catholics believe him!
Your Jesus is NOT "ALL POWERFUL"!!!
The God of the Catholic IS ALL POWERFUL!

The Jews in Jesus' day did not believe Jesus was God, so they rejected him, and his words.
They said.. 52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
They say: Jesus is only a MAN!
Anglican QUESTION.... What is your excuse for NOT believing Jesus??

IT TAKES FAITH... That God CAN change his FORM and still be God!!! DUH
In the Old Testament.. God looked as a BURNING BUSH!
God looked as a Pillar of Fire!
God looked as Smoke!
God was Sheer Silence!
God can take any FORM he wants....It is only your limited mind that tells you..."God can't look like BREAD!!!!"
Give your head a shake!

"IT TAKES FAITH"!!!!

I hope this helps...

Dogknox
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04-14-2009, 07:38 PM
Post: #5
RE: Real Presence.....Protestant's Comments Only Please
Anglican How are you?
Am I right... "The Anglican believes- Jesus enters the bread, the bread does NOT change from being bread"?

The Anglican, does not think God can change his "FORM" and still be God!
It is very clear in the "Old Testament" God changed into various "FORMS" he took on the appearance and became one FORM or another!
Bush, Fire, Tree, Smoke!

Scripture tells the Catholic.... "As Jesus held up bread he said.. THIS IS my body"!
The operative word being "IS"!
St. Augustan said.."Christ held his own body in his hands"!

When Jesus tells the Catholic he CAN Change his body to LOOK and to TASTE as bread, the Catholic believes him, We have Faith in him, It TAKES FAITH in Jesus to be a believer!

Dogknox
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04-14-2009, 10:20 PM
Post: #6
RE: Real Presence.....Protestant's Comments Only Please
There are many books.

Are you sure yours is correct?
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04-15-2009, 10:28 AM
Post: #7
RE: Real Presence.....Protestant's Comments Only Please
Hello George it is a pleasure to meet you..
You asked "Are you sure, you are correct"?
Transubstantiation:
Cor 11:16 The blessing-cup that we bless is a communion with the blood of Christ, and the bread that we break is communion with the body of Christ".
The only possible meaning is that the bread and wine at the consecration become Christ's actual body and blood. Paul believed that the words Christ said at the Last Supper, "This is my Body," meant that really and physically the bread is his body.

George I took your advise and did read a few articles. The Anglican Eucharistic theology today is all over the map. They seem to be sitting on the fence on this topic. They make grand statements about Communion but not about Transubstantiation or Consubstantiation it seems the Anglican Church is divided on this issue I can find both "For and Against" writings on the topic.

The Lutheran does NOT sit on the fence, they are "Consubstantiation"; Jesus cannot make his body and blood, LOOK, TASTE and SMELL, as Bread and Wine!
The God of the Lutheran is NOT all powerful, they don't have faith in their Jesus!

Thank you..
Dogknox
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04-15-2009, 11:08 AM (This post was last modified: 04-15-2009 11:19 AM by Anglican.)
Post: #8
RE: Real Presence.....Protestant's Comments Only Please
(04-09-2009 10:05 AM)Dogknox Wrote:  
(12-16-2008 12:37 PM)Anglican Wrote:  Speaking as an Anglican, it is transubstantiation I have trouble with, not the real presence. It is only Roman Catholics who think they are synonyms. Transubstantiation is untenable because the aristotlean physics which it presupposes are no longer tenable - in the light of modern physics.
It is a Pleasure to meet you..
You said.. "Mondern Physics" tells you it is impossible!
I reply... "You are funny"!
NOTE:... "It takes FAITH!!!!!!"

It takes more than faith. Transubstantiation, as opposed to a more losely defined Real Presence, needs you to believe in an outdated, and demonstrably false, Aristotlean metaphysics. If theologians don't want to find themselves being contradicted by physicists, they should refrain from making assertions about the nature of physical reality.

The only reason the Catholic Church tries to hang onto beliefs about the nature of matter, which are now known to be false, is its supposed infallibilty. An "infallible" Church can never admit to getting anything wrong, even in the face of incontrovertable evidence that it did. For what it is worth, most Anglicans sign up for the doctrine of consubstantiation.
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04-15-2009, 11:16 AM
Post: #9
RE: Real Presence.....Protestant's Comments Only Please
(11-28-2008 04:46 PM)The Grey Pilgrim Wrote:  What is this food which we are to work for for which endures to eternal life?

What does Jesus mean that His flesh is true food and His blood is true drink?

What does Jesus mean that by eating this food, eating His flesh, we have life within us?

If the Eucharist-or the Lord's Supper as some call it-isn't really the true presence of Christ how do you explain these passages?

The Lord's Supper (communion, etc.) is a symbolic act. The bread and wine are symbolic of the broken body and shed blood of Jesus upon the cross. His death as payment for our sins so that we may have everlasting life.

Partaking of the bread and wine is also a time of reflection on your own life to see if you are living as a Christian should. If you are saved, Christ dwells in you always. He is always present and is your sustainer.

Salvation is the 'food' we were given by the sacrifice Jesus Christ made on the cross for our eternal life.

Justice -- When you get what you deserve.
Mercy -- When you don't get what you deserve.
Grace -- When you get what you don't deserve.
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04-15-2009, 12:27 PM
Post: #10
RE: Real Presence.....Protestant's Comments Only Please
(04-15-2009 11:08 AM)Anglican Wrote:  Transubstantiation, as opposed to a more losely defined Real Presence, needs you to believe in an outdated, and demonstrably false, Aristotlean metaphysics.

Such as? Thats a pretty bold claim, considering that the doctrines of Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation are incredibly close to each other, and pretty much presuppose the same principles.

You've taken a pretty hard stance there, care to back it up with some of this "incontrovertable evidence"?

If you should see evident sins or defects, draw out of those thorns the rose; perceiving, moreover, that such apparent sinners may frequently have a good intention, for no one can judge the secrets of the heart of man.
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