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SWASTIKAs everywhere a response
08-28-2009, 12:10 PM
Post: #1
SWASTIKAs everywhere a response
Raphael

1. EWE know what I found in ancient Rome? SWASTIKAs everywhere... from Rome>>Troy>>Pompeii>>Carthage>>Jerusalem>>Britain>>Malta
SWASTIKAs everywhere...

The History of the Swastika
The Original Meaning

The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix. Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.
http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastik...istory.htm

Raphael
2.Funny how the Christian historian ignores the obvious, even after Hitler the Roman Catholic Christian NAZI starts to commit heinous crimes...eh?

oops let me edit that, all I need to do is remove the Christian Roman Catholic part... Wink

Wink to you too!

1937 February 10 Nazi officials close all Catholic schools in Bavaria.

1937 March 14 A papal encyclical, Mit Brennender Sorge (With Burning Sorrow) is published, dealing with the condition of the Catholic Church in Germany and condemning Nazi racism.

1937 March 21 Mit brennender Sorge, is read from the pulpits of all Catholic Churches in Germany on Palm Sunday.

1937 March 22 The Gestapo confiscates all copies of the Pope's encyclical it can find. Twelve print shops are soon closed and dispossessed without compensation for having printed the encyclical letter. Strong protests are lodged with the bishops and the Vatican. (Lewy)

1937 March 26 The Pope publishes an encyclical entitled Divini Redemptoris, condemning atheistic Communism.
http://www.humanitas-international.org/s...37tbse.htm

The Myth of Hitler's Pope


Book Description
In Rabbi David G. Dalin's controversial new book, he explodes the newly resurrected, widely accepted, yet utterly bankrupt smearing of Pope Pius XII,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reich_Church

The German Christian (Deutsche Christen) group was formed in 1932 and led by Ludwig Müller. The group were supportive of the Nazi ideas about race.

The Protestant Reich Church was formed by Adolf Hitler in 1933, by merging 28 regional churches into one church. The founding of the church was the result of work by the German Christians

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08-28-2009, 12:19 PM
Post: #2
RE: SWASTIKAs everywhere a response
There is controversy as to whether or not Hitler was truly a Roman Catholic. He publicly was Roman Catholic, but privately often spoke against the church.

However, there is no controversy as far as his troops go. The German army was predominantly Roman Catholic. In public they espoused loyalty to Christian ideals. Religion was used as one of the reasons that tied them to nationalism.

I've been looking at this issue quite a bit since the first time it came up on this list, though, and I've got to say now that Hitler is no more Christianity's fault than Stalin is atheism's fault. Both, however, did have extremely religious ideals. They created pseudo-religions, Hitler in his book Mein Kampf which reads like a holy book, and Stalin through the inherited ideals of Marx, whose works also read like a holy book.

The insidiousness of religion is not in any particular type of religion, like Christianity or Islam or Hinduism, but rather in the nature of religion itself which encourages the believer to ignore rational thought, not to analyze, and instead to follow a code of instructions blindly, unthinking, because it is somehow holy. It is in this way that the German soldier could convince himself that the atrocities committed by Hitler were justified, because he was singularly dedicated to the pseudo-religion of fascist nationalism. In this way the Russian soldier could ignore the dying screams of the many who died in pograms, because of his dedication to the pseudo-religion of Marxism. The Christian crusader could actually believe that killing a Muslim was the way to heaven, and the Muslim extremist could believe that blowing himself and innocent people up would earn him paradise. This is the true danger of religions.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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08-28-2009, 12:51 PM (This post was last modified: 08-28-2009 01:03 PM by catholicstation.)
Post: #3
RE: SWASTIKAs everywhere a response
(08-28-2009 12:19 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  There is controversy as to whether or not Hitler was truly a Roman Catholic. He publicly was Roman Catholic, but privately often spoke against the church.

However, there is no controversy as far as his troops go. The German army was predominantly Roman Catholic. In public they espoused loyalty to Christian ideals. Religion was used as one of the reasons that tied them to nationalism.

I've been looking at this issue quite a bit since the first time it came up on this list, though, and I've got to say now that Hitler is no more Christianity's fault than Stalin is atheism's fault. Both, however, did have extremely religious ideals. They created pseudo-religions, Hitler in his book Mein Kampf which reads like a holy book, and Stalin through the inherited ideals of Marx, whose works also read like a holy book.

The insidiousness of religion is not in any particular type of religion, like Christianity or Islam or Hinduism, but rather in the nature of religion itself which encourages the believer to ignore rational thought, not to analyze, and instead to follow a code of instructions blindly, unthinking, because it is somehow holy. It is in this way that the German soldier could convince himself that the atrocities committed by Hitler were justified, because he was singularly dedicated to the pseudo-religion of fascist nationalism. In this way the Russian soldier could ignore the dying screams of the many who died in pograms, because of his dedication to the pseudo-religion of Marxism. The Christian crusader could actually believe that killing a Muslim was the way to heaven, and the Muslim extremist could believe that blowing himself and innocent people up would earn him paradise. This is the true danger of religions.

Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Vol. 1
Indictment : Count Three
The Nazi conspirators destroyed 1,670 Greek Orthodox churches, 237 Roman Catholic churches, 67 chapels, 532 synagogues, etc. They broke up, desecrated, and senselessly destroyed also the most valuable monuments of the Christian Church, such as Kievo-Pecherskaya Lavra, Novy Jerusalem in the Istrin region, and the most ancient monasteries and churches.

On the territory of the Soviet Union the Nazi conspirators destroyed or severely damaged 1,710 cities and more than 70,000 villages and hamlets, more than 6,000,000 buildings and made homeless about 25,000,000 persons.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/count3.htm

The Gentile Holocaust
In 1939, 80 percent of the Catholic clergy and five of the bishops of the Warthegau region had been deported to concentration camps. In Wroclaw

A war of annihilation in Poland
The Nazis held that the Slavs, like the Jews, were subhuman. "All Poles," Hitler swore, "will disappear from the world." On August 22, 1939, one week before the Nazi invasion of Poland, Hitler gave the Wehrmacht their instructions: "Kill without pity or mercy all men, women and children of Polish descent or language
http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/l...N=26759546
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08-28-2009, 01:02 PM
Post: #4
RE: SWASTIKAs everywhere a response
That's only half the story. Hitler and those who worked with him were a study in contradictions about religion. What is known is that Hitler never left the church. In 1933 and again in 1941 he definitely identified himself as a Catholic. He was against atheists, because he believed atheists were all communists (he was wrong in this, but that was the propaganda). In 1934 Hitler claimed that National Socialism was based upon "real Christianity."

Now it is true that Germany, which had long been divided between Catholics and Protestants, refused to adopt either as a national religion. Technically the national religion was Nazism (I'm fearful that this bulletin board will blank that word out, but there's not really another word for it. It's not quite Fascism, as it had several purely German quirks.) Eventually they adopted an ideal called "Positive Christianity," which involved making the tenants of Christianity vague enough so you could be either Catholic or Protestant.

What was the truth? Well, likely Hitler, being something of a great charismatic leader, understood that you could not fight the church. So he paid it lip service, including having "God With Us" in German printed on official belt buckles for military uniforms. In truth, Hitler's religion was always Nazism, and it would have been the same whether he was born in Germany, or whether he had been born in Iran and given lip service to Mohammad.

However, he absolutely was not atheist. He said many, many times that he felt atheism only led to communism (which he hated,) and that spiritual development and religious faith were absolutely vital. This was one subject that he never wavered on. His religion may not have been Christianity, but he was a deeply religious man.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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08-28-2009, 01:07 PM (This post was last modified: 08-28-2009 01:20 PM by catholicstation.)
Post: #5
RE: SWASTIKAs everywhere a response
(08-28-2009 01:02 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  That's only half the story. Hitler and those who worked with him were a study in contradictions about religion. What is known is that Hitler never left the church. In 1933 and again in 1941 he definitely identified himself as a Catholic. He was against atheists, because he believed atheists were all communists (he was wrong in this, but that was the propaganda). In 1934 Hitler claimed that National Socialism was based upon "real Christianity."

Now it is true that Germany, which had long been divided between Catholics and Protestants, refused to adopt either as a national religion. Technically the national religion was Nazism (I'm fearful that this bulletin board will blank that word out, but there's not really another word for it. It's not quite Fascism, as it had several purely German quirks.) Eventually they adopted an ideal called "Positive Christianity," which involved making the tenants of Christianity vague enough so you could be either Catholic or Protestant.

What was the truth? Well, likely Hitler, being something of a great charismatic leader, understood that you could not fight the church. So he paid it lip service, including having "God With Us" in German printed on official belt buckles for military uniforms. In truth, Hitler's religion was always Nazism, and it would have been the same whether he was born in Germany, or whether he had been born in Iran and given lip service to Mohammad.

However, he absolutely was not atheist. He said many, many times that he felt atheism only led to communism (which he hated,) and that spiritual development and religious faith were absolutely vital. This was one subject that he never wavered on. His religion may not have been Christianity, but he was a deeply religious man.

Germany was anti-jewish long before Hitler goes back to Luther
WARNING: This is a Notorious Antisemitic Document!
On the Jews and Their Lies, 1543
Martin Luther (1483 - 1546)
Translated by Martin H. Bertram
http://www.humanitas-international.org/s...r-jews.htm

History of the Third Reich Adolf Hitler
Description: Four volume documentary set ("Adolph Hitler", "The SS Blood and Soil", "The Enigma of the Swastika", and "Himmler The Mystic") containing mainly B&W as well as some color archival footage, with narration explaining the influences of alternative belief systems (occult, paganism, mysticism, etc) on the Nazi ideology and Hitler's personal philosophy. Also documents the history and development of the ideas and symbols that would be used along with eugenicist racial politics to perpetrate the murder and oppression of millions during World War II. Other search word: Conspiracy
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...pr=goog-sl

Forgotten Fatherland:Search for Elisabeth Nietzsche
In 1886 Elisabeth Nietzsche, the bigoted, imperious sister of the famous philosopher, founded a "racially pure" colony in Paraguay together with her husband, anti-Semitic agitator Bernhard Forster, and a band of fair-skinned fellow Germans.

Digging into recently opened German archives, he tells how Elisabeth, who returned to Germany in 1893, grafted her anti-Semitic, nationalist ideas onto her brother Friedrich's philosophy, building a mythic cult around him. Elisabeth later became a mentor to Hitler; her stately funeral in 1935 was attended by a tearful Fuhrer. Laced with mordant irony, Macintyre's brilliant piece of investigative journalism adds weight to the view, shared by many scholars, that the Nazis' use of Nietzsche's ideas to justify their evil deeds and doctrines was a perversion of his thought
http://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Fatherla...0374157596
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08-28-2009, 02:01 PM
Post: #6
RE: SWASTIKAs everywhere a response
Nice, very nice, interesting links.

Forgive me, I awoke with a splitting headache today so maybe my brain just isn't functioning properly, but what does that have to do with our conversation? At all?

Other than to continue to illustrate that Nazi Germany was, in fact, highly religious, just not necessarily Christian.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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08-28-2009, 02:14 PM (This post was last modified: 08-28-2009 02:16 PM by catholicstation.)
Post: #7
RE: SWASTIKAs everywhere a response
(08-28-2009 02:01 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  Nice, very nice, interesting links.

Forgive me, I awoke with a splitting headache today so maybe my brain just isn't functioning properly, but what does that have to do with our conversation? At all?

Other than to continue to illustrate that Nazi Germany was, in fact, highly religious, just not necessarily Christian.

You need to look at the mindset of that period - Eugenics was all the rage and gave Hilter scientific justification

Eugenics traces its roots to Britain in the early 1880s, when Sir Francis Galton coined the term to mean "well-born".his book Studies of Hereditary Genius (1869),

Early in the 20th century, eugenics had landed on American shores. The American Breeders Association (ABA)

Laughlin’s Model Law
the German Nazi government adopted a law in 1933

Laughlin proudly published a translation of the German Law for the Prevention of Defective Progeny in The Eugenical News
http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/html/euge...tonly.html
http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/html/euge...ml?tag=762
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08-28-2009, 02:15 PM (This post was last modified: 08-28-2009 02:34 PM by Raphael.)
Post: #8
RE: SWASTIKAs everywhere a response
but but but current news ...
Germany's Roman Catholic Church has acknowledged the extent of its involvement in the use of forced labour during World War II.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7337748.stm

And of course the hierarchy of the German Catholic Church was at this time no longer communicating with the Vatican and the Vatican was in the dark as to the German RC Church's involvement?

too funny...
stop insulting my un-common sense.

Please note how the 'swastikas found everywhere' comment, made by me .... has been reduced to another NAZI inquisition conducted by Christians and other ignorant folk?
Christians commenting/investigating crimes against humanity, committed by other Christians?
Hmm

Do I need to re-educate ALL forums?
geeshhhhhhhhhh evidently I do.
swastika and nazis are NOT like bread and butter...though the propagandists have made it seem that way....
Instead of loitering around the 20th century...why don't EWE folks start by studying this symbol 10,000+ years ago and move forward in TIME.
Trust me...using a new starting point...by the time EWE arrive at when Hitler adopted this symbol, your feelings and understanding will NOT be fear based......

The swastika is MY bread and butter.
What we should do is visit each historical site like Troy and Pompeii individually.
Show the merit of this symbol through SpaceTimeMotion.
MOTION?
Does the swastika represent VORTEX motion too?

but most of EWE folks are STUCK in a time warp using warped logic.
Many can't seem to discuss the swastika past Germany's adoption of it...

Let's talk about the CRUCIFIX...when it appeared.
DID IT DISPLACE THE SWASTIKA?
NO not directly...
The Chi Rho replaced the swastika as the most common cross/amulet worn, and then the Chi Rho (christ's monogram) was replaced by/followed by the Crucifix nearly 300 years later...

HIS-story and history seem to be conflicted.
At least real history acknowledges a HER-story.

The contrived make me believe self-serving HIS-story does not even acknowledge the 20,000+ years of the HERstory that precedes Jesus and all the crap that most of EWE folks like to discuss and break bread over....

namaste

NATURE cannot be HIDDEN only VEILeD with NARRATIVES that defy NATURE

CodeX4 and the Reconciliation of Science and Religion
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/about/
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08-28-2009, 02:21 PM
Post: #9
RE: SWASTIKAs everywhere a response
I miss smellycat. At least his nonsensical and inaccurate posts were short.

Anyways, catholic, I'm still failing to see how this relates to the religion (or lack thereof) of the Nazi party. Eugenics can be reached by a mangled, complete misunderstanding of evolution (the concept that the black and the Jew are somehow less evolved, which indicates a complete misunderstanding of how evolution works,) or it can be reached by a number of religions (the Aryans as a chosen people, the idea that the snake in the garden was a black or a Jew who tainted Adam's pure white line, the proscription against 'mixing kinds', and of course the old chestnut that the Jews killed Jesus.)

No one is denying that Hitler promoted eugenics, and racial superiority. He was far from the only one, as your links indicated. But then, as you also indicated, such eugenics talk is hardly non-Christian, with Luther and the Catholics both espousing concepts of white racial superiority at various times in history.

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08-28-2009, 02:27 PM (This post was last modified: 08-28-2009 02:35 PM by Raphael.)
Post: #10
RE: SWASTIKAs everywhere a response
(08-28-2009 12:10 PM)catholicstation Wrote:  The Original Meaning

The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.

the original meaning is NOT complete.

KA = suffix

find the meaning...
that is your homework.
find the meaning of KA
it is NOT just a suffix...

start with the Egyptians

what did KA mean to them?
can we trace the swastiKA to the Egyptians?
maybe we can find similarities?

god you folks need hand holding....no wonder some of you need to believe in a god.
very little critical thinking...these end of daze.
just shallow intellect...lost in spacetime
eh GT, what would ewe say about folks needing their hand held as they walk through the valley of death?

namaste

NATURE cannot be HIDDEN only VEILeD with NARRATIVES that defy NATURE

CodeX4 and the Reconciliation of Science and Religion
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/about/
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