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Scripture
05-04-2009, 04:23 PM
Post: #1
Scripture
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


So, does this mean the Bible is only part of what a person should study, accept and understand as the word of God?
I say this because;
Scripture is a noun used to refer to writing with religious significance, or to excerpts from a holy text. Many people use it specifically to refer to the Christian Bible, although most other religions have their own unique scriptures. Religious texts are an important part of religious practice in many religions, as they set out the history and precepts of a religion. Many religious followers keep copies scripture for inspiration and religious direction, and some theologians specialize in scripture so that they can discuss and debate points of religious belief.
The word is derived from the Latin scriptus, “to write.” Many scriptures represent some of the oldest written texts in their respective cultures, suggesting the importance that religion has held in human life for thousands of years. One of the oldest scriptures in the world is believed to be the Rigveda, one of the major texts in the Hindu religion.


Scripture is NOT just Christian. Scripture is religious text of ALL religions. What I'm asking is if the Christian "word of God" states "All scripture" then does that mean ALL SCRIPTURE? For example; Jewish scripture, Islamic scripture, Hindu scripture, Sikh scripture, etc, etc, etc.....
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05-04-2009, 07:21 PM
Post: #2
RE: Scripture
(05-04-2009 04:23 PM)devine1001uk Wrote:  Scripture is NOT just Christian. Scripture is religious text of ALL religions. What I'm asking is if the Christian "word of God" states "All scripture" then does that mean ALL SCRIPTURE? For example; Jewish scripture, Islamic scripture, Hindu scripture, Sikh scripture, etc, etc, etc.....

It meant the Old Testament and, by the time 2 Timothy was written, the nascent New Testament. It certainly didn't mean the Islamic or Sikh scriptures, since those religions didn't even exist at the time.

Different religions have their own scriptures, so what's your point?
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05-05-2009, 05:49 AM
Post: #3
RE: Scripture
At no point in the book of Timothy, or in fact the Bible does it say that scripture is the "old testament". It simply refers to scripture. As I stated in my question, scripture is NOT just Christian. The Bible teaches that ALL scripture is the word of God. So, as I asked, should we follow ALL scripture? OK, so the Sikh and Islamic scripture weren't around then, but the Hindu scripture, Jewish scriptures and others were. If you can show me where in the Bible that it states we should follow the Bible/Old Testament, or that when the word scripture is used it explains that the meaning is Old Testament/Bible I would appreciate it. I'm confused with why you don't understand what i'm saying.

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05-05-2009, 06:31 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2009 07:13 AM by Anglican.)
Post: #4
RE: Scripture
(05-05-2009 05:49 AM)devine1001uk Wrote:  At no point in the book of Timothy, or in fact the Bible does it say that scripture is the "old testament". It simply refers to scripture.

To know what the author of that passage meant you need to ask what the early Church understood the word "scripture" to mean, and the answer is that they understood it to mean

a.) The Old Testament and b.) From about the middle of the second century, the emerging canon of the New Testament.

The Jewish Tanakh is identical to the Christian Old Testament (except that the order of the books is different). Other than that, you would get into a pretty fine mess if you tried to lump all the scriptures of the world into one amorphous whole, because they make mutually exclusive claims. Ecumenism doesn't mean you have to try and pretend differences aren't there, it only means you have to leave God to do the judging.
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05-05-2009, 10:19 AM
Post: #5
RE: Scripture
OK, you seem to see where I'm going with this. You're right there are many differences between the various religious teachings of the world. But there are also many similarities. I just found that the mentioning of reading ALL SCRIPTURE and taking them to be the words of God is something that is repeated time and time again throughout the Bible and many other "scriptures". I understand where you are coming from when you say we should look at what the author was trying to say, however, in my opinion, your explanation is an interpretation from many, but not the author himself. There is no contemperary evidence to suport this interpretation, the author has no voice other than what is written within the Gospel he apparently penned. I know that this doesn't prove what you're saying is wrong. No proof of something is not proof of nothing.
When you say;

"the early Church understood the word "scripture" to mean, and the answer is that they understood it to mean a.) The Old Testament and b.) From about the middle of the second century, the emerging canon of the New Testament."

That's all very well. But the Old Testament books of the Bible were written before the Church existed, well I don't totally accept this but the Roman Catholic Church would have us believe this, and the word "scripture" was not unique to Christian followers, nor was it understood to be so. This then questions, in my view, what Timothy was saying. Or just puts it into a different light for me.

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05-05-2009, 10:43 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2009 10:44 AM by Anglican.)
Post: #6
RE: Scripture
(05-05-2009 10:19 AM)devine1001uk Wrote:  I understand where you are coming from when you say we should look at what the author was trying to say, however, in my opinion, your explanation is an interpretation from many, but not the author himself. There is no contemperary evidence to suport this interpretation...."

We certainly do know what was considered scriptural in 180, because there is an extant list of the books which were then considered canonical. 2 Timothy was probably written in the region of only forty years earlier. There is certainly no indication of the Hindu scriptures (for example) were ever considered canonical by the early church. In fact it seems highly unlikely given Christianity's origins in Judaism.
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05-05-2009, 11:13 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2009 11:21 AM by George.)
Post: #7
RE: Scripture
In theory, all scripture should say the same thing. If you filter out individual bias, the words should be the same.
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05-07-2009, 10:31 AM
Post: #8
RE: Scripture
"We certainly do know what was considered scriptural"
Religious texts, also known as scripture, are the texts which various religious traditions consider to be sacred, or of central importance to their religious tradition. Many religions and spiritual movements believe that their sacred texts are divinely or supernaturally inspired.
You're basically repeating yourself Anglican. I've stated clearly that the word SCRIPTURE is not Christian. It is a WORD. Your confidence in your churches teachings is honourable but not historical. So, Timothy wrote his book around 140ad, according to you and probably your teachings (I'll have to research that one as I thought Timothy was one of St Paul's disciples who diead around 65ad, making Timothy a ripe old age if his book was written some 80 years later), and from this you and the various churches are able to say that he was speaking of ONLY Christian scripture. I'm sure he was trying to spread the word of Jesus, but he was also trying to teach people to enrichen their lives. In my view a life can not enrichen itself by closing it's mind to other ideas and teachings by only accepting one religious text. You must be able to see that there is a possibility that he was talking of ALL SCRIPTURE (in the true meaning of the word SCRIPTURE, which is NOT just Christian but all scripture)....

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05-07-2009, 10:51 AM
Post: #9
RE: Scripture
Devine,

It comes down to whether or not you believe every word in the Bible is divinely breathed. If it is, then the word scripture could very well mean all scripture everywhere.

If it isn't, though, as I believe it isn't, then you're looking at a word written by a man. This man was in a culture that considered "Scripture" to be the books we consider to be the Old Testament (the law, histories, poetries, and prophets.) Because he was in that culture and from that perspective, we can understand what scripture means. The only reason it would mean anything different was if some omniscient figure somehow directly inspired him to write that particular word, which would of course then require a literal Bible, which cannot actually be true.
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05-07-2009, 11:05 AM
Post: #10
RE: Scripture
In the rush to understand the Book of Timothy I've missed something fairly vital which I think has just put me in the TOTALLY WRONG BOX!!!!! I was just flicking through to try and find some more quotes to demonstrate what I was trying to say when I noticed some small print at the start of 1 Timothy which reads * The First Epistle Of Paul To The Appostle Timothy".... Does this mean that this is supposed to be a guide book for Timothy to folow in teaching Jesus' word? YES!!!!! Ths was written by St Paul and regardless of any language HE used it was ALL based on the teachings of Jesus Christ and not other religious scripture, even from the Bible. So I'm going to have to go back to the drawing board on that one!!

GT, you seem to have understood what I was saying, which is a good feeling, but sadly I've not done my homework thoroughly in this case!!

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