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Should we hate Judas Iscariot?
07-30-2009, 01:14 AM (This post was last modified: 07-30-2009 01:15 AM by andrewmoquin.)
Post: #1
Should we hate Judas Iscariot?
Quote:

Did Judas deserve this fate? If Jesus informs you that you will betray him, and tells you to hurry up and do it, are you really responsible for your act? Furthermore, if your act sets in motion the process—Christ’s Passion—whereby humankind is saved, shouldn’t somebody thank you? No, the Church says. If you betray your friend, you are a sinner, no matter how foreordained or collaterally beneficial your sin. And, if the friend should happen to be the Son of God, so much the worse for you.

For two thousand years, Judas has therefore been Christianity’s primary image of human evil. Now, however, there is an effort to rehabilitate him, the result, partly, of an archaeological find.
This is a lengthy story from The New Yorker and I haven't read it in its entirety yet, but I figured it would stir some good Christian discourse. Sounds like some are trying, as always, to re-write Christianity so make Christ to be the bad guy and not the Saviour the world is in desperate need of.

-Andy Moquin
Rings Community of NYC

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07-30-2009, 06:13 AM
Post: #2
RE: Should we hate Judas Iscariot?
(07-30-2009 01:14 AM)andrewmoquin Wrote:  This is a lengthy story from The New Yorker and I haven't read it in its entirety yet, but I figured it would stir some good Christian discourse. Sounds like some are trying, as always, to re-write Christianity so make Christ to be the bad guy and not the Saviour the world is in desperate need of.

So what's new?
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07-30-2009, 06:37 AM (This post was last modified: 07-30-2009 06:40 AM by Raphael.)
Post: #3
RE: Should we hate Judas Iscariot?
(07-30-2009 01:14 AM)andrewmoquin Wrote:  Sounds like some are trying, as always, to re-write Christianity so make Christ to be the bad guy and not the Saviour the world is in desperate need of.

-Andy Moquin

Andy some folks would say that some folks are simply trying to set the record straight, level the playing field of dreams and nightmares.

Many folks (me included) would suggest the 'Christians' attempted to re-write history into a one-size-fits-all palatable HIS-story, that all humans could buy into.

I have yet to meet a Christian who is ga-ga about ALL of the HER-story (dating to 25,000 BC) that preceded the Christian HIS-story, an obvious self-serving script that revolves around the public relations campain called Jesus Christ superstar.

prediction:
The correction, the result of 2000 years of lies, will be far more severe than any financial meltdown we have ever yet experienced.

The return of the messiah, the enlightenment who many folks crave, and the meltdown of our reality will be doing the cha cha cha together.

namaste

NATURE cannot be HIDDEN only VEILeD with NARRATIVES that defy NATURE

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07-30-2009, 06:47 AM (This post was last modified: 07-30-2009 06:47 AM by Anglican.)
Post: #4
RE: Should we hate Judas Iscariot?
(07-30-2009 01:14 AM)andrewmoquin Wrote:  This is a lengthy story from The New Yorker and I haven't read it in its entirety yet, but I figured it would stir some good Christian discourse. Sounds like some are trying, as always, to re-write Christianity so make Christ to be the bad guy and not the Saviour the world is in desperate need of.

A problem many modern Christians have is that they feel uncomfortable with the idea of preordination, even though it runs through the Bible like a refrain, from beginning to end. So when they have it pointed out to them by some smart alec atheist, they are stumped for a reply.
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07-30-2009, 08:34 AM
Post: #5
RE: Should we hate Judas Iscariot?
The reason so many christians have a problem with it is that preordination makes no logical sense in a religion where we supposedly have to choose our actions, and choose whether we will do what is necessary to enter heaven. I agree, preordination is all throughout the bible (though emphasized in the King James translation, influenced by the Calvinists.) Indeed, if you accept the christian tenants of an all-powerful, all-knowing god preordination becomes a necessity.

And yet somehow we are still responsible for our actions, and we pay the penalty for them.

Is a Sim from "The Sims" responsible for setting his house on fire if you build him a house with no doors, full of wood, and tell him to start setting fires? Of course not. That's something you, the omnipotent god of that game, set up because it's fun to see digital people burn.

Christians rightfully have a problem with preordination.

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07-30-2009, 10:01 AM
Post: #6
RE: Should we hate Judas Iscariot?
(07-30-2009 08:34 AM)GTseng3 Wrote:  And yet somehow we are still responsible for our actions, and we pay the penalty for them.

Is a Sim from "The Sims" responsible for setting his house on fire if you build him a house with no doors, full of wood, and tell him to start setting fires? Of course not. That's something you, the omnipotent god of that game, set up because it's fun to see digital people burn.

Christians rightfully have a problem with preordination.

Well the basis for accepting it is reverence for God, and that is unlikely to cut much ice with an atheist. Even so, your theological education leaves much to be desired:

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1023.htm
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07-30-2009, 11:19 AM
Post: #7
RE: Should we hate Judas Iscariot?
Ah, yes, quote New Advent for that, why don't you. I'm sorry, I won't accept that tortuous logic.

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07-30-2009, 11:54 AM
Post: #8
RE: Should we hate Judas Iscariot?
(07-30-2009 11:19 AM)GTseng3 Wrote:  Ah, yes, quote New Advent for that, why don't you. I'm sorry, I won't accept that tortuous logic.

An atheist doesn't accept Thomist theology. There's a surprise.
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09-19-2009, 10:24 PM
Post: #9
RE: Should we hate Judas Iscariot?
If someone threw a rock at me and it hit my head causing a gigantic bruise but I'm able to accept it and forgive him, then should you (person(s) not involved) hate him?

My opinion is that i can see Jesus forgiving Judas because Jesus knew his fate for Man. then I shouldn't hate Judas but understand the positive side of the story/history...
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09-19-2009, 11:00 PM
Post: #10
RE: Should we hate Judas Iscariot?
Christians should love Judas. Without Judas their entire religion would not exist. It was Jesus's teachings that made him a great and a wise man, but none of that is vital to christianity. It might matter to christians, but it's not vital. What is vital is that Jesus died. Without Judas, christianity does not exist.

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