Southern Baptist Convention

[Visqueen]

Another great post Alison.

[digipixel]

(04-13-2011 10:38 AM)Visqueen Wrote:  Taken from their basic beliefs page:

"....... A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ......

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One other comment:

As a non-denominational minister I will be performing a wedding in a few weeks, and I have been asked by both the groom and the bride to remove the "...love, honor and obey..." wording from the bride's vows. By they way, both the groom and the bride are Baptists.

[Visqueen]

How long have you been a minister Digi?

[Alison]

Digi, that's become quite common over the past decade ... especially when the SBC made a huge ordeal about it, around that time.

Again, I really haven't seen much of the submission stuff locally. I know that there are a few seriously old-school baptist churches around and their women are always in dresses, buns, etc. I have some beliefs in the man being the spiritual head of the home and am fine with the concept, but to limit what a woman can do simply because she's female is moronic. I've posted something similar before, but take our budgeting and finances, for instance. I'm better organized than my husband and better at getting things paid and in on time, so that's my job. Biblically, I'm not supposed to do that, though the Proverbs 31 woman has a few tidbits on the subject. (Proverbs 31 is the ideal woman.) He and I raise, discipline and punish our kids together, though some of it is phone-parenting as he works longer hours than I do and I believe in dealing with a problem on the spot, so I call him sometimes. That, too, biblically, is a no-no.

A lot of it is archaic, and when I read the scripture, I can see where there was room left for modernization. Kind of like our constitution. The founding fathers left room for progress and growth. I think that as the times changed, while the foundations of Christianity are sound, the verses do take into account change, but we don't always look at it that way.

And, as an aside ... if the church submitted as it should, more people would be staying.

[digipixel]

(04-13-2011 11:43 AM)Visqueen Wrote:  How long have you been a minister Digi?

Just a few month, Vis. I finished my exams in December and was ordained in January.

[Visqueen]

(04-13-2011 12:23 PM)Alison Wrote:  Digi, that's become quite common over the past decade ... especially when the SBC made a huge ordeal about it, around that time.

Again, I really haven't seen much of the submission stuff locally. I know that there are a few seriously old-school baptist churches around and their women are always in dresses, buns, etc. I have some beliefs in the man being the spiritual head of the home and am fine with the concept, but to limit what a woman can do simply because she's female is moronic. I've posted something similar before, but take our budgeting and finances, for instance. I'm better organized than my husband and better at getting things paid and in on time, so that's my job. Biblically, I'm not supposed to do that, though the Proverbs 31 woman has a few tidbits on the subject. (Proverbs 31 is the ideal woman.) He and I raise, discipline and punish our kids together, though some of it is phone-parenting as he works longer hours than I do and I believe in dealing with a problem on the spot, so I call him sometimes. That, too, biblically, is a no-no.

A lot of it is archaic, and when I read the scripture, I can see where there was room left for modernization. Kind of like our constitution. The founding fathers left room for progress and growth. I think that as the times changed, while the foundations of Christianity are sound, the verses do take into account change, but we don't always look at it that way.

And, as an aside ... if the church submitted as it should, more people would be staying.

It's common up here too, especially in the United Church (for those who don't know it is the combination in Canada of the Methodist, Presby and Congregational churches deciding to be one back in the 1920's). It is also common in a United Church wedding ceremony to be in and out in under 20 mins.

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(04-13-2011 12:35 PM)digipixel Wrote:  

(04-13-2011 11:43 AM)Visqueen Wrote:  How long have you been a minister Digi?

Just a few month, Vis. I finished my exams in December and was ordained in January.

You said you are non-denominational - do you have a church or building from which you minister?

I am quite curious what it means to you to be a non-denominational mininster as well, if you don't mind me asking - and please go ahead and post about it if you feel so inclined - we can always circle back to the SBC.

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I mean, what exactly is it that you do or see yourself doing in the coming years?

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For Alison and Digi - it seems missionary work is considered very important within the SBC - did either of you do any of that or were encouraged to?

[Yefet]

This is one of several reasons I left the RCA, It is from the 2010 Convention Resolution on Women's Communal Roles in Orthodox Jewish Life

3) In light of the opportunity created by advanced women's learning, the Rabbinical Council of America encourages a diversity of halakhically and communally appropriate professional opportunities for learned, committed women, in the service of our collective mission to preserve and transmit our heritage. Due to our aforesaid commitment to sacred continuity, however, we cannot accept either the ordination of women or the recognition of women as members of the Orthodox rabbinate, regardless of the title.(I would like to add that if you got up to use the restroom you would have missed the entire discussion and vote on the issue of allowing women members into the Orthodox rabbinate ,It was over that fast)

4) Young Orthodox women are now being reared, educated, and inspired by mothers, teachers and mentors who are themselves beneficiaries of advanced women's Torah education. As members of the new generation rise to positions of influence and stature, we pray that they will contribute to an ever-broadening and ever-deepening wellspring of talmud Torah yir'at Shamayim ,and dikduk b'mitzvot (their way of saying nice try but your not worthy,I personaly found the whole convention a disgrace and thought of my mother who was called Rabbi by the neighbors)
Well at least they recognize women as breathing humans ,in another 30 yrs or so maybe things will change. But not as long as certain members serve on the board.You got to love organized religion
Vis, I know its not in line with the thread but wanted to point out we all have our faults

[Visqueen]

(04-13-2011 05:10 PM)Yefet Wrote:  This is one of several reasons I left the RCA, It is from the 2010 Convention Resolution on Women's Communal Roles in Orthodox Jewish Life

3) In light of the opportunity created by advanced women's learning, the Rabbinical Council of America encourages a diversity of halakhically and communally appropriate professional opportunities for learned, committed women, in the service of our collective mission to preserve and transmit our heritage. Due to our aforesaid commitment to sacred continuity, however, we cannot accept either the ordination of women or the recognition of women as members of the Orthodox rabbinate, regardless of the title.(I would like to add that if you got up to use the restroom you would have missed the entire discussion and vote on the issue of allowing women members into the Orthodox rabbinate ,It was over that fast)

4) Young Orthodox women are now being reared, educated, and inspired by mothers, teachers and mentors who are themselves beneficiaries of advanced women's Torah education. As members of the new generation rise to positions of influence and stature, we pray that they will contribute to an ever-broadening and ever-deepening wellspring of talmud Torah yir'at Shamayim ,and dikduk b'mitzvot (their way of saying nice try but your not worthy,I personaly found the whole convention a disgrace and thought of my mother who was called Rabbi by the neighbors)
Well at least they recognize women as breathing humans ,in another 30 yrs or so maybe things will change. But not as long as certain members serve on the board.You got to love organized religion
Vis, I know its not in line with the thread but wanted to point out we all have our faults

That's quite alright Yefet, I find it helpful - and I do realise that women are still thought of as 'equal but not really equal' in many faiths. We do often discuss this on the forum regarding Islam but it was one of many reasons I wanted to create this thread.

Similarly it seems that homosexuality is no more accepted in the SBC than it is in the Muslim world - although the consequences from everything I've read on various threads, are rather different.

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Although it may not seem like it, I am also interested in positive things anyone might have to say about the SBC. What are the benefits that a member church gets from being part of such a federation? Or the members of the various congregations themselves?

[kevlar]

Has anyone else noticed the similarities here with Islam?

[digipixel]

(04-13-2011 03:45 PM)Visqueen Wrote:  

(04-13-2011 12:23 PM)Alison Wrote:  Digi, that's become quite common over the past decade ... especially when the SBC made a huge ordeal about it, around that time.

Again, I really haven't seen much of the submission stuff locally. I know that there are a few seriously old-school baptist churches around and their women are always in dresses, buns, etc. I have some beliefs in the man being the spiritual head of the home and am fine with the concept, but to limit what a woman can do simply because she's female is moronic. I've posted something similar before, but take our budgeting and finances, for instance. I'm better organized than my husband and better at getting things paid and in on time, so that's my job. Biblically, I'm not supposed to do that, though the Proverbs 31 woman has a few tidbits on the subject. (Proverbs 31 is the ideal woman.) He and I raise, discipline and punish our kids together, though some of it is phone-parenting as he works longer hours than I do and I believe in dealing with a problem on the spot, so I call him sometimes. That, too, biblically, is a no-no.

A lot of it is archaic, and when I read the scripture, I can see where there was room left for modernization. Kind of like our constitution. The founding fathers left room for progress and growth. I think that as the times changed, while the foundations of Christianity are sound, the verses do take into account change, but we don't always look at it that way.

And, as an aside ... if the church submitted as it should, more people would be staying.

It's common up here too, especially in the United Church (for those who don't know it is the combination in Canada of the Methodist, Presby and Congregational churches deciding to be one back in the 1920's). It is also common in a United Church wedding ceremony to be in and out in under 20 mins.

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(04-13-2011 12:35 PM)digipixel Wrote:  

(04-13-2011 11:43 AM)Visqueen Wrote:  How long have you been a minister Digi?

Just a few month, Vis. I finished my exams in December and was ordained in January.

You said you are non-denominational - do you have a church or building from which you minister?

I am quite curious what it means to you to be a non-denominational mininster as well, if you don't mind me asking - and please go ahead and post about it if you feel so inclined - we can always circle back to the SBC.

---

I mean, what exactly is it that you do or see yourself doing in the coming years?

---

For Alison and Digi - it seems missionary work is considered very important within the SBC - did either of you do any of that or were encouraged to?

Vis, I was not aware of the United Church in Canada. Would they be considered one of the larger denominations there?

To answer your question about my "ministry", my religious studies are more of a personal persuit than a "calling" as such. At least they started out that way. I am not a pastor in the traditional sense of the word, and I do not have a building where I preach. And perhaps my description as being a non-denominational minister is an oversimplification. I actually consider myself trans-denominational. By trans-denominational, I mean that I believe that almost all of the world's major religions have something to offer in terms of faith, but adhering to any particular denominational dogma is a non-starter for me.

My "ministry" is more about open discussion with others on matters of faith and belief. I do funerals, weddings, and baby dedications (christenings). Each of these ceremonies are done with heavy input from the family on what they want (or don't want) as part of the ritual. I will include scripture from the Bible, or any other "holy" text desired by the family. For example, a couple of weeks ago, I performed a funeral service for someone who was an agnostic. I included a minimal amount of scripture, but I also read some poety from Rumi (a 12 century Muslim poet and mystic). The service also included bag pipes (playing Amazing Grace), and a military honor guard since the deceased was also a verteran of the US Army and the US Air Force.

I'm not sure that explains much about me, but it's a start.