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Suicide in catholic religion
04-11-2010, 05:22 PM
Post: #1
Suicide in catholic religion
What do you guys think about it .Do you think God would forgive you or is it just a mortale sin .Unforgiveable sinner.
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04-11-2010, 06:56 PM
Post: #2
RE: Suicide in catholic religion
The idea that a loving God would turn his back on someone in such pain never sat well with me.

I haven't been to church in a long time, and my religion classes are a vague memory, so I don't know what Catholics are being taught now on this particular subject.
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04-11-2010, 07:23 PM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2010 07:24 PM by TheJackel.)
Post: #3
RE: Suicide in catholic religion
If GOD (for argument sake) had created a Perfect world, there would be no imperfection, no sadness, no unfair outcomes to any life.. Those that commit suicide should never be considered failures, but people overwhelmed by negative experiences, emotion, social nonacceptance, or bio-chemical imbalances in the brain. Seriously, there needs to be more respect for people who don't fit in the perfect social dogma of society. This is required if humanity is to ever continue to exist without self destructing into extinction. Life and reality isn't fair, and we can be so ignorantly closed minded to those to who fall to the pressures that we are fortunate enough to not have to experience ourselves.

I hope we can all find our meanings in life, or our happiness. It's sad for me to see those who don't get to smile, or wake up not knowing everything is going to be ok. I find my center within me, my heart within my family, and the meaning to my life as what I make of it.. I do not require anything more or less.

<taking a moment of silence>

Peace!
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04-11-2010, 09:02 PM
Post: #4
RE: Suicide in catholic religion
(04-11-2010 05:22 PM)god1 Wrote:  What do you guys think about it .Do you think God would forgive you or is it just a mortale sin .Unforgiveable sinner.

Jesus died to make a way for hurting people. The loved ones of a person who was lost to suicide should hold on to our hope in Christ.
That hope can give us the peace that passes all understanding even in the midst of the worst situation.
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04-11-2010, 09:19 PM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2010 09:19 PM by TheJackel.)
Post: #5
RE: Suicide in catholic religion
(04-11-2010 09:02 PM)Anthem Wrote:  
(04-11-2010 05:22 PM)god1 Wrote:  What do you guys think about it .Do you think God would forgive you or is it just a mortale sin .Unforgiveable sinner.

Jesus died to make a way for hurting people. The loved ones of a person who was lost to suicide should hold on to our hope in Christ.
That hope can give us the peace that passes all understanding even in the midst of the worst situation.

I would call that like putting a band-aid on an axe wound.. Seriously? This like an excuse to excuse one's GOD for all the horror in life, strife, imperfection, disease, war, hate, anger, murder, pain, or a simple little after school knife fight.. It's like when does the maker take responsibility for the giant mess it has created.. Hence, Jesus is like a band-aid to try and stop the bleeding, or an excuse to do some bleeding..

Hence, there shouldn't be hurting people ever if a GOD actually existed..
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04-11-2010, 09:43 PM
Post: #6
RE: Suicide in catholic religion
The giant mess our world is in is because people have made this mess, not God.
I do agree that He knew before this mess ever started that it would be this way. But I can still have peace because I know He has a plan that will end our mess for all time.
There is a time for suffering, and we are seeing it and living it. Yet I have peace because I know that even this will work out for our good. God isn’t looking down and seeing an out of control world. He still has it all in His control. If you see suffering, remember that God is allowing it and will somehow use it to bring an end to all suffering. The suffering you see won’t last forever.

Sing praise to the LORD, you saints of His,
And give thanks at the remembrance of His holy name.
For His anger is but for a moment,
His favor is for life;
Weeping may endure for a night,
But joy comes in the morning. Psalm 30:3-4
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04-11-2010, 10:22 PM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2010 10:23 PM by TheJackel.)
Post: #7
RE: Suicide in catholic religion
(04-11-2010 09:43 PM)Anthem Wrote:  The giant mess our world is in is because people have made this mess, not God.
I do agree that He knew before this mess ever started that it would be this way. But I can still have peace because I know He has a plan that will end our mess for all time.
There is a time for suffering, and we are seeing it and living it. Yet I have peace because I know that even this will work out for our good. God isn’t looking down and seeing an out of control world. He still has it all in His control. If you see suffering, remember that God is allowing it and will somehow use it to bring an end to all suffering. The suffering you see won’t last forever.

Sing praise to the LORD, you saints of His,
And give thanks at the remembrance of His holy name.
For His anger is but for a moment,
His favor is for life;
Weeping may endure for a night,
But joy comes in the morning. Psalm 30:3-4

Oh I agree it's the people, but I disagree a GOD exists.. Preaching is a derailment to note that people according to you were created by said GOD.. Hence, it is that of your GOD's product to which creates war, death, destruction, hate, anger, bloodshed ectra.. Hence when does this producer of the universe take responsibility for even allowing man to have the ability to even commit suicide, murder, war, or sin..

Hence if his favor is Life, their wouldn't be a food chain either, because life is a life and death struggle sir, it's not a pretty little playground where nothing goes wrong.. Animals rip other animals throats out so they too can eat. And then you post scripture that contradicts the following:

Life Loving God Examples:

Quote:Genesis 1:29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food."

Maybe your GOD should put warning labels on plants before making such statements.. Many humans have died, or have gotten severely ill discovering that a potato is only edible if you don't eat the green parts. Here is but a very very very small list ... there are thousands of fruits, or seed bearing plants and trees that can not be consumed!

POKEWEED (Pokeberry), Phytolacca, roots and fruit are dangerous
RHODODENDRON, (Azalea), all parts are fatal
ACOKANTHERA, fruit and flowers
AGAPANTHUS, African lily, foliage and bulb
AMSINKIA (Tarweed), foliage and seeds
AMARYLLIS, A. belladonna digitalis, bulbs contain alkaloids; berries and other parts
ATROPA BELLADONNA, all parts, especially black berries
AZALEAS (RHODODENDRON), all parts are fatal!
BANEBERRY, (Doll's Eyes), red or white berries, roots and foliage
BEGONIA, tubers, foliage and blossoms
BLACK LOCUST, bark, sprouts and foliage.. Potentially fatal!
BUCKEYE HORSE CHESTNUT, sprouts and nuts can be fatal
CASTOR BEAN, seeds are fatal!
CHERRIES, Prunus (wild and cultivated), twigs and foliage are fatal!
CHERRY LAUREL, all parts are very dangerous; contains hydrocyanic acid
CHINA BERRY TREE, Melia, berries are poisonous and fatal
CHRISTMAS BERRY, (Toyo), berries are poisonous and potentially fatal <--- How Ironic!
CHINA BERRY TREE, Melia, berries are poisonous
CREEPING CHARLIE, black or blue
CROCUS, all bulbs
DAPHNE, Laurus, the berries are fatal!
DAFFODIL, (Narcissus), bulbs are fatal
DAPHNE, the berries are fatal!
DEATH-CAMAS, all parts are poisonous, roots are fatal!
FOXGLOVE, Digitalis purpurea, whole plant can be fatal
GOLDEN CHAIN, seeds and pods may be fatal
LANTANA CAMARA (Red Sage), green berries are fatal
LARKSPUR, (Delphinium), foliage and roots are dangerous, seeds may be fatal!
MISTLETOE, berries are fatal!
MOONSEED, berries may be fatal
MOUNTAIN LAUREL, young leaves and shoots are fatal!
POISON HEMLOCK, all parts are fatal!
POTATO, sprouts and foliage are fatal!
RHODODENDRON, (Azalea), all parts are fatal
ROSARY BEAN, (Jequirity Bean, Crab's Eye, Precatroy Bean), Abrus, seeds commonly called
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04-11-2010, 10:33 PM
Post: #8
RE: Suicide in catholic religion
(04-11-2010 05:22 PM)god1 Wrote:  What do you guys think about it .Do you think God would forgive you or is it just a mortale sin .Unforgiveable sinner.

Well, since the thread title indicates that you're looking for the Catholic point of view, its important to point out that there is no such thing as an unforgivable sinner.

As for mortal sin, the Catholic concept of mortal sin depends on three factors: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent." Basically, mortal sin indicates a deliberate and knowing severance of the relationship with God. It is essentially infeasible to imagine that someone who commits suicide would not have serious psychological and emotional issues affecting their moral culpability.

Suicide is definitely a grave matter, but whether or not it is a mortal sin not only depends on the individual but on factors which no one is capable of knowing save for God alone. With that in mind, an act as gravely contrary to natural law and as severely harmful to self and others such as suicide is a sin, but likely not a mortal one in most cases I can imagine.

If you should see evident sins or defects, draw out of those thorns the rose; perceiving, moreover, that such apparent sinners may frequently have a good intention, for no one can judge the secrets of the heart of man.
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04-11-2010, 11:17 PM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2010 07:26 AM by TheJackel.)
Post: #9
RE: Suicide in catholic religion
let's look further at Love for life:
Your argument:
* PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

My argument:

* JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
* Leviticus 27:28-29 God ordered and allowed human sacrifices.
* Numbers 31:17-18 God commands Moses to kill all the Medianite people including children and women. To top it off he commands that the virgins be saved for later raping by Moses’ soldiers.
* Deuteronomy 3:3-7 God ordered Moses’ army to “utterly destroy” 60 cities, killing all the women and children within!

or

6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

Now I'm sure all those babies, puppies, kittens, and fluffy little bunnies in the world just deserved to be drowned to death in a giant bathtub just because said deity was "sorry" for creating them, and then contradicts himself by keeping two of each of them alive while at the same time stating he will wipe all life off the face of the Earth.. Seriously, Genocide isn't exactly what I call a "Life" Loving being!.. And why must an all powerful being drowned his victims of disgust vs humanly just make them vanish at a snap of the fingers? Seriously, 6 days to create the entire universe and it took 40 days to drown everything.. And you can't drown fish! or water bound micro-organisms, much less cover the face of the earth with 7000 ft of water.

There are many, many,many other verses I can post here, But I don't think it would matter to you.. Pls don't post scripture because your not dealing with someone that doesn't know what the bible says. I was a Christian for 20 years Wink
Back on topic, suicide should never be considered a sin regardless of knowing if it constitutes as such... Hence tossing your children in the oven to fry them in an endless hell for mistakes they make due to their faulty construction by said deity is just plain sadistic.. And by that example we could toss our own children into the oven for when they miss-behave, or just drown them in the bathtub because we are sorry for creating them because we feel they are evil and possessed by demons.

It comes to a point where you either get sucked down into delusional fallacies or you actually do some logical critical thinking...
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04-12-2010, 12:55 AM
Post: #10
RE: Suicide in catholic religion
Irrelevant. The OP specifies "suicide in Catholic religion", so I answered with the Catholic perspective. I presented no "argument", so anything labeled as such is a strawman and nothing more.

As a side note, much of what you wrote seems to indicate a lack of understanding regarding Christian theology, Scripture, and logical debate. Most people knowledgeable on theological subjects are going to be less interested in your background as a Christian for 20 years than your actual understanding of the topics being discussed. And of course, approaching people's beliefs in an honest and respectful manner always does wonders for their reception of what you have to say.

If you should see evident sins or defects, draw out of those thorns the rose; perceiving, moreover, that such apparent sinners may frequently have a good intention, for no one can judge the secrets of the heart of man.
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