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The Gospel
07-31-2013, 02:40 PM
Post: #1
The Gospel
At the core of Christianity, is a very simple message, referred to in the Scriptures as the Gospel.

It is this message that renders Christianity unique. To deny it is to deny Christ, and to be obedient to it is to submit to the Creator God of the universe.

You are rotten to the core. You are in rebellion against a perfect God. You are completely incapable of living up to His laws. In His grace and mercy, God sent His son Jesus Christ to earth. He became a man, and lived a holy and perfect life. He died willingly, crucified, shamed and rejected.

But death could not hold Him, and it's bonds were broken.

By His death, we can die as well - to ourselves, and to our sinful flesh. And by His resurrection, we can rise to new life. And we can be reconciled to God.

Go therefore, repent of your sins, be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and trust in Christ.
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07-31-2013, 04:04 PM
Post: #2
RE: The Gospel
You say we are in rebellion, how can we repent and be baptized willingly, if we are in total depravity?

I'm just curious to see what your theology is about salvation.

"To yield and give way to our passions is the lowest slavery, even as to rule over them is the only liberty." -Justin Martyr
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07-31-2013, 04:31 PM
Post: #3
RE: The Gospel
(07-31-2013 04:04 PM)shiverleaf15 Wrote:  You say we are in rebellion, how can we repent and be baptized willingly, if we are in total depravity?

I'm just curious to see what your theology is about salvation.
Only by the regenerative work of God's Spirit can our hearts be changed.

But the Spirit uses things like the proclamation of the gospel to achieve His ends.

If you're curious about my soteriology, I'm Reformed. Smile
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07-31-2013, 04:38 PM
Post: #4
RE: The Gospel
I figured you might be Calvinistic.

But then that means some are predestined to salvation, to get the irresistible grace while others just never will.

"To yield and give way to our passions is the lowest slavery, even as to rule over them is the only liberty." -Justin Martyr
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07-31-2013, 04:49 PM
Post: #5
RE: The Gospel
We are not slaves to sin.
We have free will and can make our own choices.

Several times the Old Testament called people blameless,
And why because god held nothing against them.

We are not created as some thing evil,
People become evil by choice and become "blameless" by choice.

Their is no such thing as original sin.
We must repent and do good to be saved and blood was never a requirement.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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08-01-2013, 04:16 AM
Post: #6
RE: The Gospel
Shiverleaf - yes. That's an accurate summarization. God in His sovereignty passes over some, and gives grace to others.

Azrael - I couldn't disagree more. First though, we need to establish some presuppositions. Do you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God? Or put another way, if something's in the Bible, is it therefore true?
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08-01-2013, 04:31 AM (This post was last modified: 08-01-2013 04:32 AM by Zephyr.)
Post: #7
RE: The Gospel
I_Am_Dea Wrote:You are rotten to the core. You are in rebellion against a perfect God. You are completely incapable of living up to His laws. In His grace and mercy, God sent His son Jesus Christ to earth. He became a man, and lived a holy and perfect life. He died willingly, crucified, shamed and rejected.

I understand original sin as the point in which human beings obtained their mortal state and susceptibility towards sin. However, I reject the Augustinian view, in which we carry inherent guilt of original sin and therefore are predestined towards damnation unless one receives official baptism into the visible church.

I_Am_Dead Wrote:Only by the regenerative work of God's Spirit can our hearts be changed.


I also reject the idea that God "regenerates" an arbitrary "elect" for salvation whilst the rest are left to their inescapable fate. If Christ is merciful, then all would have the potential to be saved.

In summary, I take a view sympathetic to the orthodox one, in which salvation is a mystery that occurs between God and the individual soul. No one can comment on what goes on between them. The salvation of Christ is open to all
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08-01-2013, 05:58 AM
Post: #8
RE: The Gospel
I must say, I agree with Zephyr.

I find several verses in the Bible discredit the "perseverance of the saints" theory, for one, and also the "irresistible grace" theory, without which Calvinism falls apart.

For example:

James 5:19-20 Wrote:Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

First, this passage suggests that it is possible to "err" and be re-converted. This isn't just error as pertains doctrine, it is quite clearly apostasy: else the "re-conversion" should not be saving the soul from death and hide the multitude of sins, wouldn't you think?

Then there's this:

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 Wrote:Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Here I get the feeling that Paul establishes that there is such a thing as "vain belief", which does not save. Belief becomes "vain" if the preached word of the Gospel is not maintained in memory. Clearly, "vain belief" does not save. This interpretation goes well with James 1:21-22 and James 2:14-17. These three passages all signal the fact that faith can become "vain" and "dead" and lose its capacity to save persons. The requirements for faith to remain "alive", and capable of salvation, are works of faith, and continuous remembrance.

"To yield and give way to our passions is the lowest slavery, even as to rule over them is the only liberty." -Justin Martyr
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08-01-2013, 04:53 PM
Post: #9
RE: The Gospel
(08-01-2013 04:16 AM)I_Am_Dead Wrote:  Shiverleaf - yes. That's an accurate summarization. God in His sovereignty passes over some, and gives grace to others.

Azrael - I couldn't disagree more. First though, we need to establish some presuppositions. Do you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God? Or put another way, if something's in the Bible, is it therefore true?

I would say all scriptures are inspired by god yet they are written by men.
Men are imperfect as such the bible is also imperfect and all other scriptures are as well.

All good inspiration originates from a divine source.
Their is but one divine source, the one mind of God. It is not god who changes but our perception of god that changes, thus we humans obtain revelations that might seem to contradict.
But this is balance all created things coexists with their dissimilar and are weighed against it.

The bible is not perfect but it does contain some wisdom and should be read knowing that it is not god. One should not worship their scripture but god alone.
What matters is forming a personal relationship with god and experiencing the divine for ones self. To seek enlightenment and to be as Jesus was, awakened to the mind of god.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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08-27-2013, 09:41 PM
Post: #10
RE: The Gospel
The Bible has tought me to live in fear and believe ignorance.
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