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The Question (in NEED of views/opinions)
07-26-2008, 02:10 AM (This post was last modified: 07-26-2008 03:17 AM by stacey21.)
Post: #1
The Question (in NEED of views/opinions)
I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school up until 8th grade. So needless to say I had strong ties to the denomination. I attended a public high school, but I can honestly say that did not factor into my reconsideration of religion altogether. I was mild-mannered all throughout high school and still heavily believed in God and Jesus and Catholicism.

Then I got a boyfriend. It was me wanting to explore myself sexually that got me thinking. Back then, I *honestly* thought that if I had premarital sex, I would go to Hell for eternity. At least that's what I was taught my entire life--that I was "worth the wait" and "true love waits" and that premarital sex is the Devil's temptation. But I wanted to go to that level with this person. And my love for him far exceeded any belief that had been drilled into my head since birth. So I proceeded. And thus began my questioning.

I'm not trying to be cynical. If there is a God, then that's AWESOME. How amazing will it be if there is? We get to go to this place where all we feel is happiness because we are close to Him. And we get to see all of our family and friends who have gone before us. My heart wants that to be true so badly. But supposedly, because I even question this, I go to Hell. If, at the time of my death, I don't know and believe "the right way" I don't get a piece of the Heaven pie.

Here's my issue and main question/point. First off, if there is a God, I would believe that he is a being who watches over this universe, not a God who is concerned with all of our daily actions, who keeps check of all the things we do and rewards or deducts a point for each good or bad deed. This is like Einstein's theory of a God: "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings." Our Earth is an incomprehensible speck in all of space and time; I do not believe there is a God or being who watches over us that closely. That being said, if there is such a God who is honestly that concerned with us, I have been told my whole life that if I don't come to the conclusion by the time I die that He is the Way, the Truth, the Life, I will not get to bask in His glory. God supposedly understands that we are merely humans and there are many, many limitations to our knowledge. How is it good or fair of Him to place us on this Earth with all these possibilities of beliefs before us and expect us to know what exactly is the right way? And, if we just happen to make the wrong choice, well too bad for us! Suppose the Muslims are right and you're a Christian? Or vice versa. Uh oh! Let's hope you're not in the middle of discovering yourself and what you believe when you get killed in a freak accident. See, this is the deal-breaker for me. This whole "deny me and I will deny you before my father" thing is a ridiculous ultimatum. And, be it from Jesus or people, I don't like ultimatums.

I can't express how much I was on the other side of the religious spectrum. But now, I just believe I am in the right place. I don't know anything for sure, but I know that I feel much more comfortable questioning than blindly believing. And why should I be punished for that?!

Don't expect me to cry for all the reasons you had to die.
Don't ever ask your love of me.
Don't expect me to cry.
Don't expect me to lie.
Don't expect me to die for thee.
--"Jesus Don't Want Me For A Sunbeam"
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08-02-2008, 01:33 PM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2008 01:34 PM by Phoenix4590.)
Post: #2
RE: The Question (in NEED of views/opinions)
Hello stacey,

Religion is a way that a person uses to express life, why one exists. Some people or groups use this as a way to control others by telling them what to do or think. Why do these groups or people like to tell us what to do or think? They take comfort in affecting another persons life, whether this may be good or bad. What religion is right? That's up to you to decide. I can only recommend studying each one and coming to a conclusion on your own.
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08-04-2008, 02:00 AM
Post: #3
RE: The Question (in NEED of views/opinions)
I am a new member and so just bear with me. Beside that, English is my 3rd Language so don't make fun of my writing, okay Stacy. ha.

Religion is a very interesting topic, and the idea that the world is regulated by a God somewhere in the universe brings more questions than answers to our lives. You stated in your opening remarks that you heavily believed in God, Jesus, and Catholicism despite being a public school student. This and the following statements don't go together. It seems that you wanted to hold on to your beliefs and religion not because you really actually believe there was a God but you were brought up in a Christian culture. Many Christians believers are practical Christians (church goers), but they don't have any personal relationship with God.
I will try and share with you what I thought with regards to your concerns and your views toward God.

Quote:
Then I got a boyfriend. It was me wanting to explore myself sexually that got me thinking. Back then, I *honestly* thought that if I had premarital sex, I would go to Hell for eternity. At least that's what I was taught my entire life--that I was "worth the wait" and "true love waits" and that premarital sex is the Devil's temptation. But I wanted to go to that level with this person. And my love for him far exceeded any belief that had been drilled into my head since birth. So I proceeded. And thus began my questioning.

Why premarital sex is a sin. God created Adam and Eve and gave them the best gift of all and that is to be "fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 1-2). However, because of disobedience, God give them laws to see if they would keep their faith. Through out the OT, humans turned their back on God and engaged in sexual pervasion that we read about in the days before the flood, the days in the wilderness, and in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah. If you read these accounts in details the lifestyle of these two cities, you would be surprised to see that sexual encounters were common between family members, rapes, and all kinds of other sexual sins.
God gave these laws to regulate our sexual desires and to making sure that it is shared when a man and a woman come together as one flesh and anointed in the name of Lord. In the New Testament, a couple (wife and husband) is compared to the Lord and the church, with children as the congregation. This is the sanctity of marriage. Obedience is the first law of our existence. To refrain from sexual intercourse until marriage signifies keeping the temple of god, if you believe we were created in his image, clean until married a man in the Lord. Supposing that there is no law to regulate sexual intercourse, would there be order in the world? There would be utter chaos; men fight over women, women fight over men, daughters sleeping with fathers, sons with mothers, brothers with sisters, humans and animals etc. You see the relevance for God to give us these laws that protecting our families, homes, churches, etc?

Quote:Here's my issue and main question/point. First off, if there is a God, I would believe that he is a being who watches over this universe, not a God who is concerned with all of our daily actions, who keeps check of all the things we do and rewards or deducts a point for each good or bad deed...

There wouldn't be a need for a god if that god is just to watch the universe and not what actually happening inside, would there? Sometimes when we have a quilt conscience we turn to create in our minds the kinds of god that should exist. Some people (christians) would want a god that is not interested in humans etc. but the Bible clearly stated that God created us in his image and gave us this life that we been taking for granted. And because he wants us to live with him in perfection, he wants us to keep his commandments and live his laws until the time comes. You and the man you love so much and whom you'd shared everything (physically) with, will one day have children. Think about the day when your children begin to say "we don't need you and your rules!" we are big enough and we don't need your advises!" how would you feel? I know what you would say to them "as long as you are in my house, you gonna live by my rules". So as long as we were created in the image of God and breathe this air, we are to keep his laws until we return to live with him. Laws were given in Mt. Sinai because the Israelites began to Question their Gods: they began to question why they have been stranded for years in the deserted if there was a God. And even when Moses went up to the mt. the people created a Golden Oxen and were worship it. Why? because they began to doubt that there is a God. Keeping the laws require endurance and love.

Quote:Our Earth is an incomprehensible speck in all of space and time; I do not believe there is a God or being who watches over us that closely. That being said, if there is such a God who is honestly that concerned with us, I have been told my whole life that if I don't come to the conclusion by the time I die that He is the Way, the Truth, the Life, I will not get to bask in His glory. God supposedly understands that we are merely humans and there are many, many limitations to our knowledge.

You are looking at the universe with a human point of view and because our incapability to move beyond our sphere doesn't mean that no one is out there watching. We can't deny God based on our human weaknesses because, after all, it takes thousands of years to discover bacteria and virus that were extremely invisible to doctors in the past. Apply this analogy, if our scientists today happened to go back in time and ask scientist that lived a hundred or thousands of years ago if they knew Virus or bacteria were the cause of tens of thousands of deaths in Europe, they would probably think our modern scientists are nuts! Why? Because the existence of Bacteria and Virus was completely alien to them. Is there a god out there? I would like to think so because I don't believe that things occurred by chance.
The Concept of God took form when philosophers began to wonder why everything in this world is working according to an order or a pattern. Nothing occurred by chance! Every single living thing has a cycle of life. That is not an existence by "chance!"

The bottom line Stacy is if there is a God out there? he is a god of justice, and also a God of mercy! You seemed to be struggling with the concept of God when you realized that having sex with a man you love so much was a sin! What you should have done is instead of questioning the existence of God, you should look at yourself. Where is your self-control and obedience to your God? And is there a redemption for personal weaknesses? Off course! He is that same God that also sent his son to die on the cross so that you and I can make things right with him.
These laws that he gave us aren't laws with closed ends. There are ways to get back to him just as Abraham, Jacob, David, Moses, Joshua, and any other great men you read about in the Bible, did. Abraham slept with his servant and made her pregnant, Jacob stole the birthright of his brother Esau and ran away, David sent a man to die and slept with his wife after watching her bathing naked, even Peter who was with Christ most of his Ministry, denied ever knowing him before the crucifixion. How about Paul? Paul wanted to destroy God's church by signing their lives off... on and on and on. But these people have done one thing in common, REPENTANCE! They repented from their sins and became great men and examples of the Mercy of our God.
So Stacy, look at yourself! try and see where things went wrong instead of questioning the things that you've always loved. You mentioned that social behavior in public schools never affected your beliefs, so don't let a man takes the place of your God! He isn't worth it!!
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08-28-2008, 09:26 AM
Post: #4
RE: The Question (in NEED of views/opinions)
As well written as the last argument may be, I have to say that I do not agree with it. While I do believe in God and even in Jesus and that he was a savior, I do not believe in an eternal hell for all nonbelievers. The Bible, like every other religious book, was written by men. In fact, I find I cannot respect anyone who flaunts their authority around in such arrogant ways as the Christians portray God. Furthermore, I find it impossible to believe in a "perfect" god who could be so jealous and wrathful to send his own children to an eternal torture for most mistakes. I've met a handful of human fathers who might do that, but none of them deserve two seconds of my time let alone could be called perfect.

heartache Wrote:Think about the day when your children begin to say "we don't need you and your rules!" we are big enough and we don't need your advises!" how would you feel? I know what you would say to them "as long as you are in my house, you gonna live by my rules".

I have to say, it is not as simple as that! While many parents do in fact use petty lines like that with no further explanation, I should certainly hope I never join them. A more proper reactions would be to sit down with the children and discuss matters. I would at least attempt to listen to the other side of things at all times learn and grow from it myself. Furthermore, any punishments imposed upon the children for breaking rules things would be TEMPORARY. Even more than that, I most certainly would never punish them for simply not believing (in) me or my rules. While I would most certainly be hurt and might even be silently thinking how stupid they are, it simply is not worth hurting them. A punishment for something like that, to me, seems nothing more than vindication.

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09-03-2008, 08:23 AM
Post: #5
RE: The Question (in NEED of views/opinions)
stacey,
i'll shorten the road for u ...read the topic " benfits of becoming muslim"...then read about islam...in islamweb.net or islamonline ...just for knowledge ...then give me ue opinion....
in the same time i admit christinity is a considered religion..but u will find ur answer in islam copmletly
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01-31-2010, 12:14 PM
Post: #6
RE: The Question (in NEED of views/opinions)
(09-03-2008 08:23 AM)sesame Wrote:  stacey,
i'll shorten the road for u ...read the topic " benfits of becoming muslim"...then read about islam...in islamweb.net or islamonline ...just for knowledge ...then give me ue opinion....
in the same time i admit christinity is a considered religion..but u will find ur answer in islam copmletly


That to me seem's like you're forcing this upon her which isn't right, anyone should be able to choose their religion or even if they choose a traditional pre-written religion all together - your words are forcefull and only respective to your beliefs; well it certainly came across that way anyway.

I think anyone who is curious about religion should reasearch some of the major religions to see which is more truthful to their beliefs from experience, knowledge and research and you cannot just point then in one particular direction as that is quite selfish, forceful and disrespectful to other peoples beliefs thinking that you and only you are right.
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01-31-2010, 06:34 PM
Post: #7
RE: The Question (in NEED of views/opinions)
We get punished for everything lady. Purgatory is thinking time, not another lifetime.
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02-01-2010, 09:40 AM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2010 09:53 AM by minus459.)
Post: #8
RE: The Question (in NEED of views/opinions)
Stacey you say it all so honestly.
Heartache wrote
The bottom line Stacy is if there is a God out there? he is a god of justice, and also a God of mercy! You seemed to be struggling with the concept of God when you realized that having sex with a man you love so much was a sin! What you should have done is instead of questioning the existence of God, you should look at yourself. Where is your self-control and obedience to your God? And is there a redemption for personal weaknesses? Off course! He is that same God that also sent his son to die on the cross so that you and I can make things right with him.

I'm sure you've heard that before, it's your fault not gods. How dare Adam & Eve have sex before marriage, and then have sex with their children without marriage, and their children have sex with each other without marriage. Exactly where is your obedience to your god, who in his mercy kills millions of innocent children each year and then condemns their souls to eternal suffering. As Rowan Atkinson said "eternity is a long time"

sesame wrote
stacey,
i'll shorten the road for u ...read the topic " benfits of becoming muslim"...then read about islam...in islamweb.net or islamonline ...just for knowledge ...then give me ue opinion....
in the same time i admit christinity is a considered religion..but u will find ur answer in islam copmletly

Stacey you can spend your life in servitude to your master (husband..your only allowed 1, he on the other hand) Make sure you don't receive an education and be sure to cover yourself from head to toe, because if you don't, you won't be having sex because you love the man but because he couldn't and doesn't need to control himself (sorry not having sex, being raped).

Holy Babylon wrote
We get punished for everything lady. Purgatory is thinking time, not another lifetime.

Is that lifetime as measured in godtime or humantime post early old testament?
In eternity where is the clock
So you know I'm what parousia and clementine so eloquently call a Cradle Catholic, during my time in that religion I attended a number of religious retreats. During one such retreat I was by far the youngest (early teens) the question was asked of all "who performs the sacrament of marriage, I was last to answer. The Priest conducting the retreat intoned, when I had, "out of the mouths of babes".
My answer....."The Man & The Woman". The priest is merely gods witness, I still think that God can see love without a priest.
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02-01-2010, 10:05 AM
Post: #9
RE: The Question (in NEED of views/opinions)
(07-26-2008 02:10 AM)stacey21 Wrote:  ...How is it good or fair of Him to place us on this Earth with all these possibilities of beliefs before us and expect us to know what exactly is the right way? And, if we just happen to make the wrong choice, well too bad for us!...

Sounds to me like you've been victimized by poor theology. This is a common problem within all strands of Christianity, not just Catholics.

God is loving and God will do what is right for each person. The moral teachings of the Bible are intended to bring us abundant life and deep happiness, and to help us become better at loving our neighbors as ourselves. Although all of us fail at times to adhere strictly to the letter of these moral teachings, God will not cast us off on that account. God's sacrifice for us, on our behalf, more than makes up for our failings.

If you want the greatest happiness and joy and fulfillment, concentrate on becoming a better follower of Jesus, but don't dwell on past failures.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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02-01-2010, 10:23 AM
Post: #10
RE: The Question (in NEED of views/opinions)
(02-01-2010 10:05 AM)Stereophonic Wrote:  
(07-26-2008 02:10 AM)stacey21 Wrote:  ...How is it good or fair of Him to place us on this Earth with all these possibilities of beliefs before us and expect us to know what exactly is the right way? And, if we just happen to make the wrong choice, well too bad for us!...

Sounds to me like you've been victimized by poor theology. This is a common problem within all strands of Christianity, not just Catholics.

God is loving and God will do what is right for each person. The moral teachings of the Bible are intended to bring us abundant life and deep happiness, and to help us become better at loving our neighbors as ourselves. Although all of us fail at times to adhere strictly to the letter of these moral teachings, God will not cast us off on that account. God's sacrifice for us, on our behalf, more than makes up for our failings.

If you want the greatest happiness and joy and fulfillment, concentrate on becoming a better follower of Jesus, but don't dwell on past failures.

If "God's sacrifice for us, on our behalf, more than makes up for our failings."
Why "If you want the greatest happiness and joy and fulfillment, concentrate on becoming a better follower of Jesus, but don't dwell on past failures."
No point.
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