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The split
04-28-2009, 05:01 PM
Post: #1
The split
in my religion class at university, we were taught that the sunni shia split occured at the end of ali's caliphate.

the prophet had appointed ali as his rightful successor (this point is disagreed upon between two sects) and after being denied his caliphate after 3 previous caliphs (and the muslim community/ummah not doing a fair vote), ali was finally allowed to lead. then, the family of the previous caliph who had been in power for 12 years (uthman) want the power back cause they got used to leading for so long. mu'awiyah then challenges ali and after a lot of fighting back and forth, takes the caliphate from him.

the main battle (sifflin) was actually being won by ali's side but mu'awiyah instructed his soldiers to put qurans on their spears so to throw ali off guard (ali didn't want blood to go on the qurans). that is how the mu'awiyah (sunni side) did not lose and eventually beat the shia side. this caused the unfortunate split in islam

i have two questions, MAINLY to sunnis, but shia are also welcome to give their opinion:

1. sunnis, how do you justify what mu'awiyah did in CHALLENGING the leader of islam? his family (ummayyads) wanted to simply keep the caliphate after having it for so long.... ali earned it after 1. being appointed my the prophet.... .if you dont believe that, then 2. being the popular choice for so long.... 3. finally being elected the leader of islam by the big majority.

second question:
2. sunnis again: don't you think what mu'awiyah did with the qurans on the spears was not right and disrespected your religion and its holy book? was ali's action of stopping his troops from advancing therefore not honorable?

i hope to get many opinions, facts, and references/quotations in the answers. but PLEASE, dont let this become another sunni/shia clash of opinions and get ugly.... keep it within the rules of this forum, and keep it in respectful comments that you would not hesitate to say if the prophet muhammad himself was present
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09-22-2012, 07:32 PM
Post: #2
RE: The split
Good questions.

This is a fascinating topic! It's not like the OP was rude or anything along those lines. I'm really surprised it's gone so long without any replies.

Well, here's a second chance for the nice Muslims on this forum to chime in. Smile




BTW - This is my first ever necroing a thread. Big Grin
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11-19-2012, 03:59 PM (This post was last modified: 11-19-2012 04:05 PM by muslim girl.)
Post: #3
RE: The split
For Fender I reply ^_^
how did they choose the Khalifa ( king , president )
like at that time the most famous and popular people make meeting and choose the Khalifah , then they take (By'aa ) like acceptance from everyone , in it everyone say that they accepts him , then he don't change except he become Kafer or traitor
first they choose Abu Bar , Omar , Othman
Othman was from Omayyyah , he stayed for 13 years just like his life time , like others , but others live 4 years maximum !
after he died , then most popular people , should make meeting and choose one , they did and choose Ali
Until now every thing is good
but Othaman wasn't died , he was killed , they chose Ali after Othman was killed
troops from Sham come ( Syria , Jordan , Palestine ,Lebanon ) with the Omayya family ,come to kill who kill Muslim Khalifah , and the problem was that Ali , want them to come back and then he will detect about who kill him , but they want Ali to detect first
this make war
What Sunna think ? for Sure we are with Ali , he was Muslim Khalifah who was chosen , and they should obey him
the difference between Shia and Sunnah that Shia make Ali holy somehow , while he is just one who was chosen to be Khalifah , Shia said that other prophet friend are bad and Kafer , some of prophet friend refuses to obey Ali and have different thinking , but they didn't cause the war , and you shouldn't say they are bad and Kafer !!!
in Hadeeth it is sin when the governance become by inherit like what Omayya did

yes one of Omayya family was Governor of Egypt , so Ali ask him to retire , as he was courage people for war , he rfuse and make war , and in it , he raise Quran when he was about to be defeated , they was wrong
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