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Time for Gun Control!
10-09-2017, 08:09 PM
Post: #51
RE: Time for Gun Control!
I know you didn't accuse me of making a mistake, but I did anyways. It was me recognizing that my info was outdated and wrong.

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10-09-2017, 08:30 PM
Post: #52
RE: Time for Gun Control!
(10-09-2017 07:54 PM)Amememhab Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 06:51 PM)Imprecise Interrupt Wrote:  My one and only firearm is a Remington 870 12 gauge with a pistol grip. Other than some practice at a range to get used to handling it, I have not fired it and it never leaves the house...
A Wingmaster shotgun! I own a .38 S&W revolver and a Winchester Model 94 carbine chambered in .30-.30, and like you, these guns rarely leave the home or get fired off the shooting range. But I wanted to acquire them, while it remained legal to do so. And we both like classic American firearms.

Classics indeed!

The 870 was the first firearm I had handled since the service so many years ago. I lived in New York City until I retired and moved to the country. How long ago was my time in the service? We carried M-14s. In combat.

However I am very knowledgeable about firearms as well as numerous miscellaneous other things that had little to do with my life. If I run across something that piques my interest above a certain threshold this little imp in my head forces me to go hog wild obsessive on it. Tongue

And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price
You have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice
Dylan
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10-09-2017, 10:07 PM
Post: #53
Deer hunting season cometh!
(10-09-2017 08:09 PM)Satyros Wrote:  ...my info was outdated...
Alas, alas! The fate of all information, to be outdated before we even receive it.

(10-09-2017 08:30 PM)Imprecise Interrupt Wrote:  The 870 was the first firearm I had handled since the service so many years ago. I lived in New York City until I retired and moved to the country. How long ago was my time in the service? We carried M-14s…However I am very knowledgeable about firearms...
My technical knowledge of firearms is extremely limited. Nothing not visible on the exterior of the weapon or in the owner’s manual is accessible to me. And that manual says not to alter your gun. I can open and partially strip either of my guns enough to allow cleaning.

But the pump on a Wingmaster be so silky. See those ducks over there accelerating for takeoff as they espy you approaching with that stick thing they hate in your arms? Pump cycled, old shotgun shell dropping to ground, new shell in chamber, shotgun to shoulder, aimed, and fired before those birds gain altitude and get away.

But I hunt young bucks, not ducks, both as Utah deer hunter and as gay man cruising the meat market on the boulevard. I haven’t had a success since 2006, however. Oh well, it’s October already; one more chance the 14th. Most years I don’t even fire the rifle; I’m never close enough to do that. The bucks hear me and all I see is their whitetail rumps receding into the brush 150 yards downrange. Praying
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10-10-2017, 06:36 PM
Post: #54
RE: Deer hunting season cometh!
(10-09-2017 10:07 PM)Amememhab Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 08:30 PM)Imprecise Interrupt Wrote:  The 870 was the first firearm I had handled since the service so many years ago. I lived in New York City until I retired and moved to the country. How long ago was my time in the service? We carried M-14s…However I am very knowledgeable about firearms...
My technical knowledge of firearms is extremely limited. Nothing not visible on the exterior of the weapon or in the owner’s manual is accessible to me. And that manual says not to alter your gun. I can open and partially strip either of my guns enough to allow cleaning.

But the pump on a Wingmaster be so silky. See those ducks over there accelerating for takeoff as they espy you approaching with that stick thing they hate in your arms? Pump cycled, old shotgun shell dropping to ground, new shell in chamber, shotgun to shoulder, aimed, and fired before those birds gain altitude and get away.

But I hunt young bucks, not ducks, both as Utah deer hunter and as gay man cruising the meat market on the boulevard. I haven’t had a success since 2006, however. Oh well, it’s October already; one more chance the 14th. Most years I don’t even fire the rifle; I’m never close enough to do that. The bucks hear me and all I see is their whitetail rumps receding into the brush 150 yards downrange. Praying

The slide on the 870 is nearly effortless. This is one reason I chose the Remington. That (and the pistol grip) would allow rapid fire from shoulder or hip while maintaining reasonable short-range accuracy. Should such a desperate circumstance ever arise, which I hope never happens.

I do not hunt, but do not begrudge that sport to others. There is no hunting allowed anywhere near here, and I consider the local wildlife as neighbors. I have watched several generations of whitetails grow up. They have become accustomed to me and merely glance at me and continue foraging when I come out of the house. One buck with a magnificent 10 point rack and a distinctive mark on his face, I have been watching since he was a baby fawn. He became a grandfather last year.

I would not hunt even if I did not think of the deer as my foster children. Big Grin I am also partially disabled, needing a cane for all but the shortest distances, and sit-down time for much longer distances. Anyway, stalking through the woods with a firearm would resurrect ghosts best left buried.

I know a guy who does hunt. He drives 50 miles or so during bear season, equipped with his long barrel Colt SAA chambered in traditional .45 Colt. Talk about a classic! The SAA has been in production since 1873. With modern powder that is one serious hand cannon. Some years back he got a three hundred pounder. Black bears are not hunters, preferring to gather and scavenge. I see one around here once in a while. The only one who ever gave me more than a brief glance was a mother with cubs. She stared until I finished walking away. Don’t worry Mom, I won’t eat your cubs.

There are firearms galore around here but negligible crime. In cities, the number of firearms per capita tends to correlate with the crime rate. But I avoid simple explanations.

And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price
You have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice
Dylan
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10-11-2017, 01:50 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2017 01:52 PM by Amememhab.)
Post: #55
Cool RE: Time for Gun Control!
I sympathize with the “pro-animal” view, most of the time. None of those whitetail rumps want to come to grief; they want to forage, drink, be merry, and have lots of fawns before going to deer heaven in some starving snowy winter. And getting shot really hurts, although I’ve never experienced it. Yet deer in Utah have few natural predators—black bears don’t normally take them; only mountain lions do, and then only a few of the biggest lions. So, we have an annual deer hunt, well out of the birthing season. I participate, although I’m not particularly gifted in this arena.

Deer aren’t ducks at all. I’ve seen crack duck hunters with bird dogs afield. I lack the skills. Young bucks don’t fly. Blinds and stands are both legal in Utah, although shooting from a stand is harder than it looks from below; it’s a constrained space for absorbing the Winchester .30-30’s recoil. But I’m not much better at bagging bucks than at winging the bird, and I don’t use these artificial constructions; I just slog up and down the hillsides as much as my bad hip will allow.

Basic Utah resident hunting license, $34, landowner mitigation, $30. Tag for carcass; deer, $80, on many units must win tag in lottery; nonrefundable entry fee $20. This is $164 total for one afternoon of horsing 8b of loaded model 94 through the brush. That’s my contribution to maintaining habitat for a deer population from which I’ve culled exactly one animal. I’m gonna remember that 2006 year-old, because I’m not getting any faster afoot—I harbor serious doubts about getting another one. It’s hard. And I’ll have to quit the field by 2020 or so, I suppose; I just won’t have the stamina (or pain tolerance) anymore.
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10-11-2017, 03:37 PM
Post: #56
RE: Time for Gun Control!
(10-11-2017 01:50 PM)Amememhab Wrote:  I sympathize with the “pro-animal” view, most of the time. None of those whitetail rumps want to come to grief; they want to forage, drink, be merry, and have lots of fawns before going to deer heaven in some starving snowy winter. And getting shot really hurts, although I’ve never experienced it. Yet deer in Utah have few natural predators—black bears don’t normally take them; only mountain lions do, and then only a few of the biggest lions. So, we have an annual deer hunt, well out of the birthing season. I participate, although I’m not particularly gifted in this arena.

Deer aren’t ducks at all. I’ve seen crack duck hunters with bird dogs afield. I lack the skills. Young bucks don’t fly. Blinds and stands are both legal in Utah, although shooting from a stand is harder than it looks from below; it’s a constrained space for absorbing the Winchester .30-30’s recoil. But I’m not much better at bagging bucks than at winging the bird, and I don’t use these artificial constructions; I just slog up and down the hillsides as much as my bad hip will allow.

Basic Utah resident hunting license, $34, landowner mitigation, $30. Tag for carcass; deer, $80, on many units must win tag in lottery; nonrefundable entry fee $20. This is $164 total for one afternoon of horsing 8b of loaded model 94 through the brush. That’s my contribution to maintaining habitat for a deer population from which I’ve culled exactly one animal. I’m gonna remember that 2006 year-old, because I’m not getting any faster afoot—I harbor serious doubts about getting another one. It’s hard. And I’ll have to quit the field by 2020 or so, I suppose; I just won’t have the stamina (or pain tolerance) anymore.

I am not opposed to hunting, but you or someone else has to eat what you kill to avoid bad karma. Personally, I see no attraction in it and I am physically incapable of it. But to each his own. There are no natural predators around here for deer or for anything bigger than an eagle can lift or a garter snake can swallow for that matter. The foxes seem content with mice and such. A hundred miles west of me there are super-coyotes - coyote, grey wolf hybrids that migrated from the western states. But they have not reached here yet.

Historically, there were such predators: large bears, wolves and the most efficient, Native Americans. But today unnatural predators – cars and trucks – account for far more deer than hunters.

And here I sit so patiently waiting to find out what price
You have to pay to get out of going through all these things twice
Dylan
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10-12-2017, 07:45 AM
Post: #57
RE: Time for Gun Control!
(10-11-2017 03:37 PM)Imprecise Interrupt Wrote:  [You] or someone else has to eat what you kill to avoid bad karma.

I’ll tell you; one thing I blanch at is the possibility of shooting another hunter by mistake. We all wear blaze orange—or are legally required to do so—and much time is spent verifying target and backdrop, to make sure human beings and other unwanted targets aren’t behind the deer. And it’s why I don’t use a scope on my model 94. Just the iron sights, and I wanna be within 100 feet of that buck. Last year I never got within 100 feet of a shooting opportunity, and I never took the safety off my carbine.

In 2011 (I think), I got shot at by someone I never identified. I just heard a crack and a scrub oak branch about five feet from my head exploded and detached from the tree. And five or six bucks who’d been concealed about 30 or 40 yards behind me flushed at the sound. I wanted to be angry; yet as I’d been crouched there, he may well not have seen my blaze orange. I stood up and waved my arms, and no more shots came from that direction. And he wasn’t really targeting me, but the bucks. Those backdrop and foreground issues matter.

I field-gutted the 2006 buck and had the butcher turn him into venison, most of which I had to donate to the food pantry. It was about 55lbs of meat. It’s illegal to waste (not use, leave to rot) a game animal in Utah. I’ve got a short, sleeveless buckskin jerkin now, which I made myself using just a knife and sewing needle. When I wear that jerkin, I think about the life I took, and it makes me cry. But I’m gonna get too old for this now, most likely. It’s nostalgia when I go out now.

Yeah, roadkill. Fairly minor, in total numbers, but a worse way for the deer than being shot to death, because they wriggle on the road for hours with mortal injuries as that hit-and-run driver vrooms away.
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10-13-2017, 02:14 PM (This post was last modified: 10-13-2017 05:36 PM by Visqueen.)
Post: #58
RE: Time for Gun Control!
*edit - content deleted

Banning napalm, white phosphorus, and cluster bombs won't deter governments from using them on civilians, either.

When someone asks "What would Jesus do?" remind them that flipping tables and chasing people with a whip is entirely possible.
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10-13-2017, 02:21 PM
Post: #59
RE: Time for Gun Control!
Gun control to me is having a tight shot group.

Presently I own two firearms; one is a 1945 M1 Garand rifle and the other is a .50 cal flintlock Pennsylvania rifle.

Neither has been fired in anger since I have owned them, and fortunately neither has been needed for self or home defense.

The M1 gets taken to the range once in a blue moon; the flintlock goes target shooting and on reenactments a few times a year.

The Marines taught me weapons handling- I don't need some pencil-neck office troll telling me how to be safe or that there's no reason for me to have my firearms. Go sell it somewhere else- maybe those office trolls can hop on over to Detroit or Chicago and explain to the boys in the hood why they shouldn't have guns.

When someone asks "What would Jesus do?" remind them that flipping tables and chasing people with a whip is entirely possible.
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10-14-2017, 02:24 AM (This post was last modified: 10-14-2017 10:32 AM by Amememhab.)
Post: #60
Gun Control is a pipe dream in the USA.
(10-13-2017 02:21 PM)Caesar Saladin Wrote:  ...a 1945 M1 Garand rifle...
...I don't need some pencil-neck office troll telling me how to be safe or that there's no reason for me to have my firearms. Go sell it somewhere else...

Oh, would that the hydra facing those who would like to keep the Second Amendment intact and in force, without those who want to read its subordinate clause, the one about militias, which justifies having the amendment, as governing and mooted by the establishment of professional first responders, prevailing upon legislatures for a gun ban, were incompetent, unable to grow any more heads. We seem almost kindred spirits, possessing two firearms apiece, although yours are old and mine are of recent manufacture, and one is a revolver. That’s the thing. The old ones still work, if they’ve been kept in repair and not yet fired the 2500 times that would wear out the barrel.

Problem is, gun banners can point to Europe, where gun laws vary a great deal from country to country but ownership is in general more expensive and burdensome than in the USA. England bans handguns for most people, allowing shotguns and rifles only to those who register as members of hunting or gun clubs. What passes in Europe often passes on our shores, sooner or later. Germany had Social Security beginning 1883.

In other words, just telling them to go to hell isn’t gonna work. We must sell our own case, and sell it harder than ever before, or we’ll lose this war. The USA does in fact have a lot of gun violence relative to much of the world, Latin America and the Philippines excepted, and we need to show why constitutional protection is warranted despite this. It sure is. Gun-related deaths comprise 1.2% of all US mortality, concentrated in relatively small high-risk groups. This is a blood price, yet paid for 240 years freedom from tyranny (at least for white males, now extended to additional groups), whereas Adolf Hitler stalked Europe in living memory. The NRA fails to acknowledge the blood with which we water the Tree of Liberty in its give-no-ground stance. I think it should embrace the fact of this price as necessary—but support more public mental health services, more aggressive policing in high-crime areas, and more efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders instead of just label them for a life of stigmata.

We affront more than the pencil-necked technocrats acting against us. Anti-gun groups are well-organized, knowing and supporting their legislators, receiving patronage from the latter in return, enjoying a broad support base among the half of US households that don’t own guns and even among some gun owners of the “sports-only” stripe. We’ve got an uphill slog, and we need to show ourselves sober where the anti-gun faction portrays us as nutcases.

Oddly, I’m mostly left myself politically, but on guns and the extremes of multiculturalism, I deviate because I think some of the older American traditions remain worthwhile.
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