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Trinity doctrine
06-18-2010, 01:53 PM (This post was last modified: 06-18-2010 01:54 PM by dustandashes.)
Post: #1
Trinity doctrine
I use the term "trinitarians" rather than "christians", because Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!" Matthew 7:21-23 (NIV)

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father." John 6:44-46 (NIV).

The so-called doctrine of the trinity, as preached in its various interpretations by various denominations, has no Scriptural foundation.

The trouble with trinitarians is that with a lot of them, sooner or later, belief in the false doctrine of the trinity becomes a requirement for one's salvation. A few will stop short of making such belief an absolute requirement, but will still try mightily to persuade others to join them. Many trinitarians are quick to praise other trinitarians, and even quicker to condemn those who refute their false doctrine.

"How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God?" John 5:44 (NIV).

"But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away." John 6:36-37 (NIV).

"The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." John 6:63-65 (NIV).

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Ephesians 2:8-10 (NIV).
Man, in and of himself, cannot take one, single, solitary step toward Jesus; the Holy Scriptures declare that it is through God's grace and mercy, and the power of the Holy Spirit, that one might believe. "Coming to Christ" means that God has enabled one to come to Christ. Apart from God's grace and mercy, it cannot happen.

Faith is a gift of God's grace and mercy. One cannot "accept Jesus as my personal Savior". It is Jesus who accepts, and only those who have been enabled by the Father to come to Jesus are accepted.

Although I am placing this thread in Religion Forums/General Religion Discussion/The Bible, I personally do not use the term "Bible". There are many versions, translations, etc. and they are not all in total agreement with each other on what is included/excluded. I prefer the Holy Scriptures, the term I use and the frame of reference to which I refer in my posts. I do not use or engage in secular argument, theology, or philosophy.

"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 1:20-21 (NIV).

I do not engage in debate over origin, authenticity, or so-called relationships to writings of ancient cultures. The Scriptures speak plainly for themselves; they say what they mean, and mean what they say. They are not subject to any man's interpretation.

"The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails--given by one Shepherd. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body." Ecclesiastes 12:11-12 (NIV)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it." John 1:1-5 (NIV)

"Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods'? If he called them `gods,' to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken--what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, `I am God's Son'?"

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Mark 13:32 (NIV)

"Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work." John 14:10 (NIV)

"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them." John 17:24-26 (NIV)
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06-19-2010, 10:22 PM
Post: #2
RE: Trinity doctrine
What does (NIV) represent?

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06-20-2010, 06:36 AM
Post: #3
RE: Trinity doctrine
(06-19-2010 10:22 PM)kevlar Wrote:  What does (NIV) represent?

It stands for New International Version- one of the most popular bible translations.
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06-20-2010, 06:54 AM
Post: #4
RE: Trinity doctrine
The question was specifically directed at dusty..............as he knows...........and the reason he avoided answering the question earlier..............but thank you Dharma

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06-20-2010, 09:19 AM
Post: #5
RE: Trinity doctrine
(06-19-2010 10:22 PM)kevlar Wrote:  What does (NIV) represent?

See here.
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06-20-2010, 09:20 AM
Post: #6
RE: Trinity doctrine
question too difficult?

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06-20-2010, 09:27 AM
Post: #7
RE: Trinity doctrine
(06-20-2010 09:20 AM)kevlar Wrote:  question too difficult?

(06-20-2010 09:19 AM)dustandashes Wrote:  See here.
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06-20-2010, 09:32 AM (This post was last modified: 06-20-2010 09:45 AM by kevlar.)
Post: #8
RE: Trinity doctrine
Ok if it is just say so.....................no need to get all thingy about it.
I thought it was a pretty simple question..........ergo something you could answer..........since there was no chance of you engaging in secular argument, theology, or philosophy. Just a very simple answer to a very simple question.............too much to ask?
Or is it perhaps that you are quoting from a 'BIBLE" and claiming that you are in fact quoting from holy scripture, because you have told me that the components that make up the bible are "NOT" holy scripture.
Just a thought

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06-20-2010, 12:05 PM (This post was last modified: 06-20-2010 12:19 PM by dustandashes.)
Post: #9
RE: Trinity doctrine
(06-20-2010 09:32 AM)kevlar Wrote:  Ok if it is just say so.....................no need to get all thingy about it.
I thought it was a pretty simple question..........ergo something you could answer..........since there was no chance of you engaging in secular argument, theology, or philosophy. Just a very simple answer to a very simple question.............too much to ask?
Or is it perhaps that you are quoting from a 'BIBLE" and claiming that you are in fact quoting from holy scripture, because you have told me that the components that make up the bible are "NOT" holy scripture.
Just a thought

(06-20-2010 09:27 AM)dustandashes Wrote:  See here.
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03-02-2011, 11:29 PM
Post: #10
RE: Trinity doctrine
(06-18-2010 01:53 PM)dustandashes Wrote:  I use the term "trinitarians" rather than "christians", because Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!" Matthew 7:21-23 (NIV)

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father." John 6:44-46 (NIV).

The so-called doctrine of the trinity, as preached in its various interpretations by various denominations, has no Scriptural foundation.

The trouble with trinitarians is that with a lot of them, sooner or later, belief in the false doctrine of the trinity becomes a requirement for one's salvation. A few will stop short of making such belief an absolute requirement, but will still try mightily to persuade others to join them. Many trinitarians are quick to praise other trinitarians, and even quicker to condemn those who refute their false doctrine.

"How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God?" John 5:44 (NIV).

"But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away." John 6:36-37 (NIV).

"The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." John 6:63-65 (NIV).

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Ephesians 2:8-10 (NIV).
Man, in and of himself, cannot take one, single, solitary step toward Jesus; the Holy Scriptures declare that it is through God's grace and mercy, and the power of the Holy Spirit, that one might believe. "Coming to Christ" means that God has enabled one to come to Christ. Apart from God's grace and mercy, it cannot happen.

Faith is a gift of God's grace and mercy. One cannot "accept Jesus as my personal Savior". It is Jesus who accepts, and only those who have been enabled by the Father to come to Jesus are accepted.

Although I am placing this thread in Religion Forums/General Religion Discussion/The Bible, I personally do not use the term "Bible". There are many versions, translations, etc. and they are not all in total agreement with each other on what is included/excluded. I prefer the Holy Scriptures, the term I use and the frame of reference to which I refer in my posts. I do not use or engage in secular argument, theology, or philosophy.

"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 2 Peter 1:20-21 (NIV).

I do not engage in debate over origin, authenticity, or so-called relationships to writings of ancient cultures. The Scriptures speak plainly for themselves; they say what they mean, and mean what they say. They are not subject to any man's interpretation.

"The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails--given by one Shepherd. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body." Ecclesiastes 12:11-12 (NIV)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it." John 1:1-5 (NIV)

"Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods'? If he called them `gods,' to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken--what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, `I am God's Son'?"

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Mark 13:32 (NIV)

"Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work." John 14:10 (NIV)

"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them." John 17:24-26 (NIV)

I believe the Bible is clear on the teaching of the Trinity. All cults and most religions reject the teaching of the Trinity, even though it is taught throughout Scripture. The Bible makes it crystal clear that there is One God- Genesis 1:1,EXODUS 20:3,34:14, DEUTERONOMY6:4,32:39, ROM.3:30,1COR.4:4,6,JOHN 17:3. MATTHEW 28:19 is a good support text for the Trinity, it shows plurality within unity, Jesus baptism, the trinity involved in the resurection,virgin birth,redemption, etc. Supporting texts 2Cor.13:14,1John5:7,Matt.3:16-17, Eph.4:4-6, Titus3:4-6. Old Testament foreshadows the Trinity=Genesis1:26,3:22,11:7,Isa.6:8, in Deut.6:4 God hints at His plurality within unity using the hebrew word echad for the word one meaning unity, instead of yachid meaning the only one. Now there is One God that is clear throughout the Bible and the Bible also calls the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit God and Lord. Here are some verses that state this=Father is God- 1Cor. 1;3,8:6,Eph.4:4-6,1peter1:2,and Matt.11:25. Jesus is God-John1:1,20:28,Heb.1:8,Matt.1:23,Titus 2:13,2Peter1:1,1John5:20, and Rom.10:9. The Holy Spirit is God - Acts5:3-4 and 2Cor.3:17. The Scriptural basis is One God in 3 Persons. The early Church Fathers defended the Trinity also and long before AD300. 96ad-Clement, 90-100-The Didache=the teachings of the 12 apostles, 90 Ignatius, 155 Justin Martyr, 168 Theophilus, 177 Athenagoras, 180 Irenaeus, 197 Tertullian, 264 Gregory Thamaturgus. All 3 Persons share divine attributes Eternality,Creator of All Things, Omnipresent, Omniscient, Wills and Acts Supernaturally, Gives Life, Strengthens Believers. I believe this is sufficient evidence for the Biblical teaching of the Trinity. Also just because the word Trinity is not in the Bible does not mean that it is not taught there. The word Bible is not in the Scriptures,but we own a copy, the word rapture is not in the Bible,but it is taught, the word 2nd Coming is not in there,but Christ is coming again, the word millenium is not used in it , but there will be a thousand year reign as taught in Revelation, so as Christians there is nothing wrong with being a Bible believer in the One True God who exists as one essence in three persons, the Godhead=Col.2:9 God Bless You, check out the evidence from The Eternal Word of God take care.
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