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Two kinds of morality
07-16-2013, 11:04 PM (This post was last modified: 07-17-2013 11:09 AM by Yefet.)
Post: #1
Two kinds of morality
TWO KINDS OF MORALITIES, MARXIST VERSUS THEOLOGICAL

I am reading interesting comments about communist morality, in a book devoted to Judaism, published in 1975. The authors are two rabbis, D. Prager and J. Telushkin. A Christian theologian would probably make similar observations.

Marxists and theologians, they write, "are both motivated by the desire to perfect the world and establish a utopia on earth. ... Both promote all-encompassing worldviews. But they diametrically oppose one another in almost every other way." The authors remind us that communists rejected "all morality derived from nonhuman [i.e. God] and nonclass concepts," as stated in 1920 by Lenin. ... "Marxist morality sanctions any act so long as that act was committed in the interest of [economic and political] class struggle." Nothing that Stalin, and Mao did was immoral, according to such ideology.

Theologians, on the other hand, hold "that morality transcends economic, national, and individual interests." God's commandments are objective rather than subjective. Evil human acts are condemned, no matter what economic or political gains are derived from them. That is the essential difference. Greed in human nature, they emphasize, "may have helped create capitalism, but capitalism did not create greed in human nature."

Theologians also deplore social injustice. But they reject brutal proletarian revolutions because "the roots of evil and injustice lie not in economics or society but in man himself." This has to do with the concept of freedom. "For Marxism, which conceives of the world in materialist terms, bondage is defined solely as servitude to external sources such as slave owners, capitalist bosses, or other forms of material inequality. Freedom is liberation from such servitude." People, as stated in the Communist Manifesto, written by Marx and Engels, must get rid of economic chains binding them. Then they will automatically cease to be evil.

Theologians, on the other hand, see two kinds of liberation, from external and from internal bonds. "Once liberation from external servitude takes place, one must then liberate oneself from internal domination, the domination of one's life by passions, needs, irrationality and wants." The conflict between theologians and Marxists "is not economic, it is moral." Proletarian dictatorship was practiced in several countries; the results show that "when Marxist revolutionaries attain power they are at least as crual as their predecessors."

Philosophical differences about morality, among different kinds of theologians, are minimal, as far as I know. But attempts to impose morality are not very successful. Why is it so? What can be done to improve the situation, to bring our reality a little closer to "utopia" dreams?

Ludwik Kowalski
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07-17-2013, 12:02 AM
Post: #2
RE: Two kinds of morality
What exactly makes you think that Marxism promotes a moral system? My understanding is that it is a political theory, describing how political power falls into the hands of those who control the means of production. It is however correct to say that the materialist philosophy underlying Marxism must reject the divine command morality (e.g. that morality is the arbitrary commands of some divine). Various alternatives that are compatible with Marxism include absolute logical morality, humanist evolutionary morality, and moral nihilism.
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07-17-2013, 04:06 AM
Post: #3
RE: Two kinds of morality
Quote:"Marxist morality sanctions any act so long as that act was committed in the interest of [economic and political] class struggle." Nothing that Stalin, and Mao did was immoral, according to such ideology.

If you make a claim like that you don't understand the ideology. Marxism is not about exploitation and oppression. Quite the contrary. It's about class struggle and the shift of power. Stalin was a fascist, Mao... Difficult to describe in a few words. Once one starts oppressing the disadvantaged or any group for that matter, you're not keeping to the ideology.

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07-17-2013, 10:42 AM
Post: #4
RE: Two kinds of morality
(07-17-2013 04:06 AM)Huitaca Wrote:  
Quote:"Marxist morality sanctions any act so long as that act was committed in the interest of [economic and political] class struggle." Nothing that Stalin, and Mao did was immoral, according to such ideology.

If you make a claim like that you don't understand the ideology. Marxism is not about exploitation and oppression. Quite the contrary. It's about class struggle and the shift of power. Stalin was a fascist, Mao... Difficult to describe in a few words. Once one starts oppressing the disadvantaged or any group for that matter, you're not keeping to the ideology.

Karl Marx was a great man, the people who came after him warped his ideals to fit their political agendas.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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07-17-2013, 12:21 PM
Post: #5
RE: Two kinds of morality
Well Lenin was comparably good, and faithful to Marx in my opinion...I don't agree with all his methods but I really don't see him as a power-hungry tyrant like Stalin.

I don't align with Marxism presently though, and prefer pacifist Communalism rather than revolutionary Marxism...
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07-17-2013, 01:05 PM (This post was last modified: 07-17-2013 04:45 PM by Visqueen.)
Post: #6
RE: Two kinds of morality
You wrote: "... Karl Marx was a great man, the people who came after him warped his ideals to fit their political agendas."

Marx formulated the theory of proletarian dictatorship; Lenin, Stalin, etc. tested this theory in practice. The results are well known.

Ludwik Kowalski
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07-17-2013, 05:07 PM
Post: #7
RE: Two kinds of morality
(07-17-2013 01:05 PM)kowalskil Wrote:  You wrote: "... Karl Marx was a great man, the people who came after him warped his ideals to fit their political agendas."

Marx formulated the theory of proletarian dictatorship; Lenin, Stalin, etc. tested this theory in practice. The results are well known.

Ludwik Kowalski

Yes and Hitler tested survival of the fittest in practice too. Waving Goodbye

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07-18-2013, 01:32 PM
Post: #8
RE: Two kinds of morality
Hui is bang on the money in this thread.
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07-18-2013, 02:06 PM
Post: #9
RE: Two kinds of morality
(07-18-2013 01:32 PM)Painkiller Wrote:  Hui is bang on the money in this thread.
Huitaca is great. He is the only poster on here when I sometimes view the forums at 4:30am EST. He's on here. Smile

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07-18-2013, 05:33 PM
Post: #10
RE: Two kinds of morality
(07-18-2013 02:06 PM)IMtM Wrote:  
(07-18-2013 01:32 PM)Painkiller Wrote:  Hui is bang on the money in this thread.
Huitaca is great. He is the only poster on here when I sometimes view the forums at 4:30am EST. He's on here. Smile

Haha thanks but the only reason I am on at that time is because I have insomnia. Smile

Religion is a topic I like to discuss. Leftism is something I'm passionate about. Well I should say was passionate amount. Life changes people.

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