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Universal Declaration of Human Rights and your religion
01-15-2010, 12:54 PM
Post: #1
Universal Declaration of Human Rights and your religion
I believe that in the 30 articles of Universal Declaration of human rights, passed in 1948 and most countries are signatory to this, we have a complete solution for our present day international mess. We do not need to reinvent the wheel especially not to create a triangular wheel!

Let us examine what different religions, especially their scriptures and different countries have to say about these articles. Switzerland is in clear violation.

If it is the panacea as I think, why is it not publicized better on CNN and BBC.
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01-15-2010, 02:30 PM
Post: #2
RE: Universal Declaration of Human Rights and your religion
Details? How is Switzerland in violation?
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01-15-2010, 03:42 PM
Post: #3
RE: Universal Declaration of Human Rights and your religion
I yield that many Muslim Countries are in vioation also and in many instances more gross violation. My hope is that all countries should improve in this century when the world is changed into a global village. But, even villages have their class system, I would rather say that in presence of this Forum, it is a 'Global Living Room;' we are all chatting like friends from all over the world. Thanks to the wisdom of the moderators.

Switzerland is in vilation as it is trying to legislate prohibition of minarets in the new mosques. Here are the articles of Declaration:

Article 1.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
^ Top
Article 2.
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Incidently, there has been some positive development in Bangladesh, as Supreme Court Banned use of religion in politics‏:

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp...2010_pg7_7
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01-15-2010, 04:52 PM (This post was last modified: 01-15-2010 04:57 PM by clarence clutterbuck.)
Post: #4
RE: Universal Declaration of Human Rights and your religion
Ahmadi Wrote:I yield that many Muslim Countries are in vioation also and in many instances more gross violation. My hope is that all countries should improve in this century when the world is changed into a global village. But, even villages have their class system, I would rather say that in presence of this Forum, it is a 'Global Living Room;' we are all chatting like friends from all over the world. Thanks to the wisdom of the moderators.

Switzerland is in vilation as it is trying to legislate prohibition of minarets in the new mosques. Here are the articles of Declaration:

The societies that come closest to achieving the standards espoused in The Universal Declaration of Human Rights are invariably western secular democracies, and not the Muslim theocracies like Iran and Saudi Arabia, where as you state, gross human rights violations take place.

When non-Muslims think of Islam, they can't help but consider these totalitarian theocracies with their gender apartheid, cruelty towards their own citizens and murderous fatwas against critics.

Compared to the outrages practiced by some Islamic countries, the Swiss banning of minarets is small beer.

I find the reasoning of Paula Kirby in an article on the minarets issue to be persuasive. She argues that secular societies are best able to deliver equality and fairness for all citizens, whatever their religious beliefs.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfai...mbols.html
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01-15-2010, 05:14 PM
Post: #5
RE: Universal Declaration of Human Rights and your religion
I agree with you, clarence clutterbuck, when you write, "I found the reasoning of the atheist, Paula Kirby in an article on the minarets issue to be persuasive. She argues that secular societies are best able to deliver equality and fairness for all citizens, whatever their religious beliefs." I am completely convinced of the Separation of Church or Mosque and State, regardless of the underlying reasons.

Please also make the distinction between the practice of the present day Muslims and Islam. This will become clear when we appreciate that a lot of bad stuff has gone in history in the name of Christianity, rather than being bogged down by the past and even present, we as a human race have to move to a better future. A step backward is a step backward, however small and has the risk of putting the Western countries on a sliding slope.

Encyclopedia Britannica describes one of the Presidents of the UN General Assembly Sir Zafrulla Khan in these words, “He became the new country’s minister of foreign affairs and served concurrently as leader of Pakistan’s delegation to the UN (1947–54). From 1954 to 1961 he served as a member of the International Court of Justice at The Hague. He again represented Pakistan at the UN in 1961–64 and served as president of the UN General Assembly in 1962–63. Returning to the International Court of Justice in 1964, he served as the court’s president from 1970 to 1973.”

He wrote an excellent small book that compares all the articles of the Universal Declaration with the Quranic teachings. The book is titled and is available for a free download from Alislam.org. Author’s deep appreciation of the law and insight into the religion of Islam and its holy scripture the Holy Quran make it a must read for every man of conscience:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Islam-HR.pdf

It will not unfair for me to ask some of the Christian apologists like Stereophonic to show such correlation between human rights and their respective scriptures. They may have tall claims to make but those need to be substantiated from their scriptures and the history of respective scriptures; otherwise it only amounts to hollow Monday morning quarterbacking.

By gathering insights from all religions and societies we need to move forward. How Abraham Lincoln had visualized USA, in a similar fashion we have to visualize our Global village now. Universal Charter of Human Rights does that for us. President Lincoln had said:

"A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure, permanently, half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved —I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other." That is the dilemma for the world now! Can we meet the challenge?
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01-15-2010, 09:49 PM
Post: #6
RE: Universal Declaration of Human Rights and your religion
"Classical [Muslim] jurists had divided the world into dar al-Islam (the abode of peace) and dar al- harb (the abode of war). Dar al-Islam refers to territories in which Muslims are free and secure and dar al-harb is the opposite of dar al-Islam, and refers primarily to non-Muslim territories hostile to Muslims and dangerous to their freedom and security."

Muhammad's Islam is a totalitarian ideology in which the world is divided into Muslim and non-Muslim spheres of influence. Within the Muslim sphere Muslims are expected to follow Muhammad's social rules he claims are from Allah and while his book states there is to be no compulsion in religion the reality is that Muslims are highly compelled to follow Muhammad's instructions. Death in this world and eternal torture are the punishments to be meted out to unbelievers while believers must believe in Muhammad's rules or face Muslim punishment. This totalitarianism disallows the social evolution that the worldwide Democracy movement is bringing to protect all peoples, especially minority groups, from totalitarian control-freaks. Personally, I don't think Muhammad's Islam can handle democratic life of freedom of speech, religion and lifestyles. God is on the side of Democracy because only truly free people sincerely believe while those compelled to believe this way or that are likely to bolt once the compulsion is taken away.
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01-16-2010, 06:40 AM
Post: #7
RE: Universal Declaration of Human Rights and your religion
(01-15-2010 09:49 PM)biomystic Wrote:  "Classical [Muslim] jurists had divided the world into dar al-Islam (the abode of peace) and dar al- harb (the abode of war). Dar al-Islam refers to territories in which Muslims are free and secure and dar al-harb is the opposite of dar al-Islam, and refers primarily to non-Muslim territories hostile to Muslims and dangerous to their freedom and security."

Muhammad's Islam is a totalitarian ideology in which the world is divided into Muslim and non-Muslim spheres of influence. Within the Muslim sphere Muslims are expected to follow Muhammad's social rules he claims are from Allah and while his book states there is to be no compulsion in religion the reality is that Muslims are highly compelled to follow Muhammad's instructions. Death in this world and eternal torture are the punishments to be meted out to unbelievers while believers must believe in Muhammad's rules or face Muslim punishment. This totalitarianism disallows the social evolution that the worldwide Democracy movement is bringing to protect all peoples, especially minority groups, from totalitarian control-freaks. Personally, I don't think Muhammad's Islam can handle democratic life of freedom of speech, religion and lifestyles. God is on the side of Democracy because only truly free people sincerely believe while those compelled to believe this way or that are likely to bolt once the compulsion is taken away.

I thnk you are wrong in some aspects here.
You say that Islam is not matching the democratic countries, where freedom of speech and free will is given. To update you, there are many democratic countries in the world, like India, and many others, where free will is not given, and many of times humilation of ffreedom is noticed.Example, Babri Mosque incident of India, Gujrat Masacare etc etc. Same in Thailand as well in other countries.

What muslims claim , that all people should submit their wil to God, so that there wont be ay mischeif on land, Islam denounces all the evils in society, e.g theft, murder, rape, alcohol, bribery. poverty. injustice. And Islamic era is full with the best examples of Society.

I recomend you reading the rule of Umar Farooq(pbuh), the 2nd Caliph of Isla,m, and compare it with any country ruler now.
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01-16-2010, 07:04 AM (This post was last modified: 01-16-2010 07:06 AM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #8
RE: Universal Declaration of Human Rights and your religion
Populations evolve in their ideas. Biomystics, what you are talking about was a creation of medieval times and had to do as much with Islam as with the dark ages in Europe.

The Holy Quran is a very dynamic book and has teachings available that are suitable to the time. Its vision now is none other than that of a global village where all humans enjoy equal rights. The verse I have in mind:

يٰۤاَيُّهَا النَّاسُ اِنَّا خَلَقْنٰكُمْ مِّنْ ذَكَرٍ وَّاُنْثٰى وَجَعَلْنٰكُمْ شُعُوْبًا وَّقَبَآٮِٕلَ لِتَعَارَفُوْا‌ؕ اِنَّ اَكْرَمَكُمْ عِنْدَ اللّٰهِ اَتْقٰٮكُمْ‌ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ عَلِيْمٌ خَبِيْرٌ‏

"O mankind, We have created you from a male and a female; and We have made you into tribes and sub-tribes that you may recognize one another. Verily, the most honourable among you, in the sight of Allah, is he who is the most righteous among you. Surely, Allah is All-knowing, All-Aware." (Al Quran 49:14)

As the precise text of the Holy Quran is preserved and its language is alive and as it is not a translation from a translation, it can give us subtle details that other scriptures cannot. Here the words used are يٰۤاَيُّهَا النَّاسُ after the Quran had used the expression of 'the believers,' five times before, in this very chapter; a subtle hint at the 'Universal Brotherhood' of man a Brotherhood that needs to be established when time is ripe. When communication means have brought all of humanity so close that they are a global village. When the children of slave holders are so close and compassionionate to the children of slaves in Haiti that they are managing perhaps the greatest relief effort in the island of Haiti. This is not a time to start hating 1 billion Muslims, who are in every country of the world, in India and in China. So where ever the Western Christians and the unaffiliated or the atheists will go they will run into them. Hate can give political gains to the hate mongers but negative emotions seldom do anything positive for the person involved.

I am not talking of Muslim political domination, far from it, I am not ready to sacrifice the great principles that human experimentation has taught us in the last 2-3 centuries. I am talking of a Universal Brotherhood with a form of Government that humanity decides is the best and most compassionate for all involved. Time to extend the human rights that exist in USA to the whole of humanity.

Long live our Homo sapiens!! Read some of the book I am talking about here:

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Islam-HR.pdf
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01-16-2010, 08:08 AM
Post: #9
RE: Universal Declaration of Human Rights and your religion
(01-16-2010 06:40 AM)TruthWon Wrote:  
(01-15-2010 09:49 PM)biomystic Wrote:  "Classical [Muslim] jurists had divided the world into dar al-Islam (the abode of peace) and dar al- harb (the abode of war). Dar al-Islam refers to territories in which Muslims are free and secure and dar al-harb is the opposite of dar al-Islam, and refers primarily to non-Muslim territories hostile to Muslims and dangerous to their freedom and security."

Muhammad's Islam is a totalitarian ideology in which the world is divided into Muslim and non-Muslim spheres of influence. Within the Muslim sphere Muslims are expected to follow Muhammad's social rules he claims are from Allah and while his book states there is to be no compulsion in religion the reality is that Muslims are highly compelled to follow Muhammad's instructions. Death in this world and eternal torture are the punishments to be meted out to unbelievers while believers must believe in Muhammad's rules or face Muslim punishment. This totalitarianism disallows the social evolution that the worldwide Democracy movement is bringing to protect all peoples, especially minority groups, from totalitarian control-freaks. Personally, I don't think Muhammad's Islam can handle democratic life of freedom of speech, religion and lifestyles. God is on the side of Democracy because only truly free people sincerely believe while those compelled to believe this way or that are likely to bolt once the compulsion is taken away.

I thnk you are wrong in some aspects here.
You say that Islam is not matching the democratic countries, where freedom of speech and free will is given. To update you, there are many democratic countries in the world, like India, and many others, where free will is not given, and many of times humilation of ffreedom is noticed.Example, Babri Mosque incident of India, Gujrat Masacare etc etc. Same in Thailand as well in other countries.

What muslims claim , that all people should submit their wil to God, so that there wont be ay mischeif on land, Islam denounces all the evils in society, e.g theft, murder, rape, alcohol, bribery. poverty. injustice. And Islamic era is full with the best examples of Society.

I recomend you reading the rule of Umar Farooq(pbuh), the 2nd Caliph of Isla,m, and compare it with any country ruler now.

One only has to look at the news reports that happen almost on a daily basis where Muslims in some country or another are attacking either each other or non-Muslims. The historic record being created in our times shows that Islam despite all Muslim apologies to the contrary is a religion easily corrupted into an agenda of violent war against others. I have seen how Muslims on these Internet talkboards are constantly being accused of not looking objectively at their own religion and it's true, so many Muslims are totally mesmerized by idolization of Muhammad and his book the bad things Muslims are doing to others doesn't register in their minds like it should as a defeat of spirituality. Like I say, no man who has killed others can create a religion of peace. They had no experience in peace and were not given divine guidance on how to achieve it. God made sure the fatal flaws would eventually expose these artificial religions masking monstrous megalomania of their founders for what they really are: one man's or one groups' territorial conquest and control ideologies extended through time to create empires. Imperial Judaism= Zionism. Imperial Christianity= the history of the Catholic Church with Evangelical Protestantism close behind. And Imperial Islam= Muhammad and the Quran. Empire building does not equal spreading the Goodness of God.
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01-16-2010, 09:07 AM
Post: #10
RE: Universal Declaration of Human Rights and your religion
(01-16-2010 08:08 AM)biomystic Wrote:  One only has to look at the news reports that happen almost on a daily basis where Muslims in some country or another are attacking either each other or non-Muslims. The historic record being created in our times shows that Islam despite all Muslim apologies to the contrary is a religion easily corrupted into an agenda of violent war against others. I have seen how Muslims on these Internet talkboards are constantly being accused of not looking objectively at their own religion and it's true, so many Muslims are totally mesmerized by idolization of Muhammad and his book the bad things Muslims are doing to others doesn't register in their minds like it should as a defeat of spirituality. Like I say, no man who has killed others can create a religion of peace. They had no experience in peace and were not given divine guidance on how to achieve it. God made sure the fatal flaws would eventually expose these artificial religions masking monstrous megalomania of their founders for what they really are: one man's or one groups' territorial conquest and control ideologies extended through time to create empires. Imperial Judaism= Zionism. Imperial Christianity= the history of the Catholic Church with Evangelical Protestantism close behind. And Imperial Islam= Muhammad and the Quran. Empire building does not equal spreading the Goodness of God.

So you rely on 1 side of story, and not the other side, this means you are truly ignorant of facts and truth my friend.
May I know, which part of Islamic scripture teach violance, can you bring any proof which you yourself have read and seen?

If you are counting muslims killing muslims and other non-muslims, for sure they are not muslims, and this killing is going on every part of world, for many reasons, but you cant call it religious motivation and religious scripture behind this.
So please, whenever you make any comment or claim, bring evidence, and read history, rather than looking on BIAS news only.
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