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What do you think of the "17 Points of the True Church?"
06-15-2009, 11:26 AM
Post: #1
What do you think of the "17 Points of the True Church?"
1. Christ organized the Church (Eph 4:11-14)
2. The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ (Eph 5:23)
3. The true church must have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets (Eph 2:19-20)
4. The true church must have the same organization as Christ's Church (Eph 4:11-14)
5. The true church must claim divine authority (Heb 5:4-10)
6. The true church must have no paid ministry (1 Cor 9:16-18; Acts 20:33-34; John 10:11-13)
7. The true church must baptize by immersion (Matt 3:13-16)
8. The true church must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (Acts 8:14-17)
9. The true church must practice divine healing (Mark 3:14-15)
10. The true church must teach that God and Jesus are separate and distinct individuals (John 17:11; 20:17)
11. The true church must teach that God and Jesus have bodies of flesh and bone (Luke 23:36-39; Acts 1:9-11; Heb 1:1-3)
12. The officers must be called by God (Heb 4:4; Ex 28:1; 40:13-16)
13. The true church must claim revelation from God (Amos 3:7)
14. The true church must be a missionary church (Matt 28:19-20)
15. The true church must be a restored church (Acts 3:19-20)
16. The true church must practice baptism for the dead (1Cor 15:16&29)
17. "By their fruits ye shall know them." (Matt 7:20)
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06-15-2009, 11:36 AM
Post: #2
RE: What do you think of the "17 Points of the True Church?"
Rather than simply launch a barrage of proof texts, you would need to elaborate a bit on how you interpret those texts. I'm guessing you are a Mormon, and therefore your interpretation would be rather problematic on some points.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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06-15-2009, 11:43 AM
Post: #3
RE: What do you think of the "17 Points of the True Church?"
You're right--I just figured most of the people here would already be familiar enough with these points and it would save me from typing up quite a lengthy post.
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06-15-2009, 12:46 PM
Post: #4
RE: What do you think of the "17 Points of the True Church?"
No need to type it all up--I'm sure you can simply provide links to your Mormon websites...

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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06-15-2009, 12:54 PM
Post: #5
RE: What do you think of the "17 Points of the True Church?"
This topic isn't about me defending Mormonism, it's about hearing what other people think of these points. I remember reading these years ago, but I've never been able to actually have a conversation or discussion with someone of another faith on them. Like you said, it's all based on interpretations, and I'll agree with you on that one. So the Mormon interpretation is based on the guidance of modern prophets/apostles, and other churches may make the same claim, while other people may believe in individual interpretations.

So I apologize if I came across as trying to start a "defend Mormonism" topic, but I assure you my real intent is to hear other people's interpretations and thoughts on these points and their references.

For instance, I remember once I was talking to a Catholic and they tried explaining to me why certain people in their church received salaries and wages. They had some complex way of explaining it and elaborating on the whole "he who is paid is a wolf and ravages the fold" kinda thing, it just didn't make sense to me.
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06-15-2009, 01:27 PM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2009 01:28 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #6
RE: What do you think of the "17 Points of the True Church?"
(06-15-2009 12:54 PM)jakgre Wrote:  This topic isn't about me defending Mormonism, it's about hearing what other people think of these points...my real intent is to hear other people's interpretations and thoughts on these points and their references...

Why not start a separate thread for each one of your 17 points? This would allow people to respond to the points they wish, without getting bogged down in other matters unimportant (or less important) to them? For example, your points #1, #3, #5, #12, #13, #14, and #17 are hardly problematic--at least as you have stated them--whereas the other points seem to have varying degrees of problems.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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07-16-2009, 09:37 AM (This post was last modified: 07-16-2009 09:39 AM by Raphael.)
Post: #7
RE: What do you think of the "17 Points of the True Church?"
who says there are 17?

why only 17?
is 17 an agreed upon number?

about the number 17, as always I do have my own ideas using the over-riding archetype and and and the tools of the creator god alchemist.

the tools of creation embedded into the scripts, the narratives, all the narratives, none are special.
Angelic

namaste

NATURE cannot be HIDDEN only VEILeD with NARRATIVES that defy NATURE

CodeX4 and the Reconciliation of Science and Religion
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/about/
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08-04-2009, 04:34 PM
Post: #8
Wink RE: What do you think of the "17 Points of the True Church?"
i think they're all awesome... but then again i would
an interesting topic to discuss not on this list, would be the adam/eve interpretation
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08-09-2009, 08:03 AM
Post: #9
RE: What do you think of the "17 Points of the True Church?"
(06-15-2009 12:54 PM)jakgre Wrote:  This topic isn't about me defending Mormonism, it's about hearing what other people think of these points.

why choose 17?
who gets to pick?

why did they stop or agree upon 17?
who are THEY?
I shall start a thread about 17 in the NUMBERS section.
See ya there?

namaste

NATURE cannot be HIDDEN only VEILeD with NARRATIVES that defy NATURE

CodeX4 and the Reconciliation of Science and Religion
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/about/
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08-16-2009, 07:30 PM
Post: #10
RE: What do you think of the "17 Points of the True Church?"
i've never actually seen the "17 points of the true church" list before so i'm not sure where it comes from, more commenly used is the 13 articles of faith penned by joseph smith, i believe the jewish religion also has 13 articles of faith.
i'm interested to know why numbers are so important to you?
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