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What is your belief on creation and evolution?
07-02-2013, 06:45 AM
Post: #1
What is your belief on creation and evolution?
Hey everyone. What is your belief on creation and evolution? As for me, I am a Theistic Evolutionist. Basically that means that I believe human beings evolved from hominids to modern human beings but that God started and guided the process. I believe that my belief is fully compatible with science.
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07-02-2013, 08:03 AM (This post was last modified: 07-02-2013 08:05 AM by legend.)
Post: #2
RE: What is your belief on creation and evolution?
The evidence for evolution is so strong that I accept it as much as any scientific theory. A natural origin for life is also the most likely scenario.


May I ask why you think an omnipotent God would create a universe in which evolution would be almost entirely sufficient for humanity evolving, but would require him to step in and guide it along the way? Why didn't he just create the universe in a way that was slightly more self sufficient such that he didn't need to step in at all? And since there is nothing that says that man could not have evolved on its own without any supernatural guiding, doesn't it seem more likely that God did indeed create a more perfect universe that didn't need his intervening guidance to produce man?
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07-02-2013, 10:41 AM (This post was last modified: 07-02-2013 10:43 AM by Fossilgirl.)
Post: #3
RE: What is your belief on creation and evolution?
(07-02-2013 06:45 AM)SpiritualGal02 Wrote:  Hey everyone. What is your belief on creation and evolution? As for me, I am a Theistic Evolutionist. Basically that means that I believe human beings evolved from hominids to modern human beings but that God started and guided the process. I believe that my belief is fully compatible with science.

I have a few problems with theistic evolution, although many Christians do believe as you do.
One problem I have is that theistic evolution totally changes theology throughout the entire Bible. Theistic evolution believes that God created through a process of pain, suffering, death and extinctions. Theistic evolution has to turn the Bible upside down trying to fit evolution into God's Word.

"Legend" also sort of lays out part of the problem of theistic evolution.

The Bible tells us that "death entered the world by the sin of one man", but theistic evolution believes death existed for millions of years before "adam'.

Spiritual Gal... Would you be willing to consider that scientific evidence supports the straight forward literal interpretation of Genesis?

"I challenge...to come up with one practical application of biology that would have been impossible were it not for the hypothesis of evolution" Sonenthal, New Scientist
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07-06-2013, 12:11 AM
Post: #4
RE: What is your belief on creation and evolution?
(07-02-2013 06:45 AM)SpiritualGal02 Wrote:  Hey everyone. What is your belief on creation and evolution? As for me, I am a Theistic Evolutionist. Basically that means that I believe human beings evolved from hominids to modern human beings but that God started and guided the process. I believe that my belief is fully compatible with science.

Hello, IMO, they both have truth and lies mixed, both wrong actually.

To say it simply, we were Created by God in a natural and supernatural phenomenon (wondrous way) while we do evolve as we are subject to grow in intelligence and by DNA instruction.

In the same sense, we are what we eat but said in the supernatural dimension and not to confuse the flesh with the spirit. We must define the soul first before defining what are the differences in Creation and Evolution.

Our outward appearances change by our choice of lifestyle, the flesh is influenced by the unseen spirit and the DNA codes and processes. Just compare culture/people around the world. Their belief is manifest outwardly. This works visa verse, what goes around comes around-the spirit is influenced by physical practices, practice makes perfect.

We were Created but not what we are manifesting in this present age, and God is Adamant about this. Why is there so much debate about this? Because it's where there are the most deceptions, and why? Because it's the most heavily bombarded and targeted points of attack on God so that satan may go on living and prevent the Ending from Coming-Judgment.

There isn't much for the two sides to reason, it's coming to terms with the 'Reason' that kills them, spiritually.

The truth is still buried underneath all of this and every mystery and every question in the world, and all of them may be answered with one simple Matrix that is written in the Cross and written in mankind. God wrote His Law in the Cross, humankind and nature, and we can see all of Him in all of Creation, and do it with a simple Matrix that children may sketch and learn.

Paul said in Romans that if we find how to see this then we would be left without excuse to transgress, and this is why it's so difficult to see the truth in simplicity unless one sweeps the attic/mind clean and come to Christ as a babe, ready to learn again as a small child in First grade because it is that simple.

Even the Human Rights issues and Gay marriage issues may be settled by examining the human body form and compare to the Ten Commandments and the Cross where the Law is. If we can't see the Law that God wrote in us then we have a way to easily do so.

Both groups would stand corrected and end the debate if they could see with spiritual eyes.

mm
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07-07-2013, 03:43 AM
Post: #5
RE: What is your belief on creation and evolution?
(07-02-2013 06:45 AM)SpiritualGal02 Wrote:  Hey everyone. What is your belief on creation and evolution?

I accept the scientific consensus which supports the modern evolutionary synthesis. It's simply the strongest conclusion based on the relevant objective evidence and it consistently makes verifiably accurate predictions, so therefore it's the most reasonable choice.

(07-02-2013 06:45 AM)SpiritualGal02 Wrote:  As for me, I am a Theistic Evolutionist. Basically that means that I believe human beings evolved from hominids to modern human beings but that God started and guided the process. I believe that my belief is fully compatible with science.

Supernatural and unfalsifiable explanations, however, are not science. Therefore, while it may be compatible with the evidence (since there can be no evidence to disprove it), theistic evolution is not compatible with science. It's simply not scientific or logical at all to accept claims without sufficient objective evidence supporting them.

"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." - Thomas Jefferson
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07-07-2013, 01:44 PM
Post: #6
RE: What is your belief on creation and evolution?
(07-07-2013 03:43 AM)HiEv Wrote:  Supernatural and unfalsifiable explanations, however, are not science. Therefore, while it may be compatible with the evidence (since there can be no evidence to disprove it), theistic evolution is not compatible with science. It's simply not scientific or logical at all to accept claims without sufficient objective evidence supporting them.

That is why it is called Faith because regardless of whether we could prove it we chose to believe any way.

When you trust a person to do some thing for you, you are putting your faith in them that they will do it for you, you do not know and can't know for certain that the person will do it but you choose to trust them. Even if you know the person very well there is no guarantee they will do as you asked them.

Assuming some one doesn't know how to build a house they then hire a person to build a house for them, they do not know any thing about how houses are built so they put their Faith in the person they have hired that they will build them a good house. Because even if you pay the person you can't be certain they will do a good job.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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07-07-2013, 02:25 PM
Post: #7
RE: What is your belief on creation and evolution?
Concerning the Creation:

I accept the Bible. I'm a Day-Age Creationist when it comes to the duration of the "days", and also have particular beliefs concerning what a "kind" is (rather than specie or "baramin" I believe it means a niche), and what "grass", "fowl", etc mean.

I accept biological evolution as having occurred. I don't accept the Uniformitarian idea that evolution has occurred smoothly from the time of LUCA down to modern man: I almost do, with an exception c.4000 BC, when I believe God may have produced Adam from human cells but outside a woman's uterus. And I believe God produced Eve the same way, using human cells derived from Adam. As a result I wonder and speculate that God created Adam and Eve through some degree of "genetic engineering", but I don't know. Unless Adam was a clone, and Eve produced from Adam's XY sexual cells, hence genetically Adam's daughter? That's possible as well.

I know science doesn't demand the "special creation" of Adam and Eve, but I believe it occurred. What differs between me and other Creationists is that they believe God snapped his fingers and turned clay into a human, and that biological homo sapiens didn't exist before that. I believe they did, and up until Adam and Eve became homo sapiens through natural evolution over the generations. I believe that in a way, Adam and Eve, and through them modern mankind, thus are biologically part of the evolutionary tree going back to LUCA. I just don't believe Adam and Eve were born out of wombs in the natural manner.

I don't claim to have "evidence" from science for my beliefs in the Bible's Creation account. It's just my beliefs.
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07-07-2013, 07:11 PM
Post: #8
RE: What is your belief on creation and evolution?
(07-07-2013 01:44 PM)Azrael17 Wrote:  
(07-07-2013 03:43 AM)HiEv Wrote:  Supernatural and unfalsifiable explanations, however, are not science. Therefore, while it may be compatible with the evidence (since there can be no evidence to disprove it), theistic evolution is not compatible with science. It's simply not scientific or logical at all to accept claims without sufficient objective evidence supporting them.

That is why it is called Faith because regardless of whether we could prove it we chose to believe any way.

When you trust a person to do some thing for you, you are putting your faith in them that they will do it for you, you do not know and can't know for certain that the person will do it but you choose to trust them. Even if you know the person very well there is no guarantee they will do as you asked them.

Assuming some one doesn't know how to build a house they then hire a person to build a house for them, they do not know any thing about how houses are built so they put their Faith in the person they have hired that they will build them a good house. Because even if you pay the person you can't be certain they will do a good job.

I think you're misusing the word faith. In the above scrnario, you don't put faith in the builder. Builders generally know how to build. We have repeated instances where houses are built by people hired to do that very thing. Faith is something else entirely.

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence - Me
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07-07-2013, 07:22 PM (This post was last modified: 07-07-2013 07:23 PM by shiverleaf15.)
Post: #9
RE: What is your belief on creation and evolution?
Huitaca, that's more of what I'd call a difference on the terms of probability: blind belief (against the odds) vs. belief based on evidence (empirical of sorts).

Azrael may define "faith" in the mere sense of "confidence" regardless of the odds, which is how I define it. I explicitly believe "blind belief" is the opposite of true faith, as in the New Testament Greek "pistis" sense: that's my opinion though.
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07-07-2013, 07:48 PM
Post: #10
RE: What is your belief on creation and evolution?
(07-07-2013 07:11 PM)Huitaca Wrote:  
(07-07-2013 01:44 PM)Azrael17 Wrote:  
(07-07-2013 03:43 AM)HiEv Wrote:  Supernatural and unfalsifiable explanations, however, are not science. Therefore, while it may be compatible with the evidence (since there can be no evidence to disprove it), theistic evolution is not compatible with science. It's simply not scientific or logical at all to accept claims without sufficient objective evidence supporting them.

That is why it is called Faith because regardless of whether we could prove it we chose to believe any way.

When you trust a person to do some thing for you, you are putting your faith in them that they will do it for you, you do not know and can't know for certain that the person will do it but you choose to trust them. Even if you know the person very well there is no guarantee they will do as you asked them.

Assuming some one doesn't know how to build a house they then hire a person to build a house for them, they do not know any thing about how houses are built so they put their Faith in the person they have hired that they will build them a good house. Because even if you pay the person you can't be certain they will do a good job.

I think you're misusing the word faith. In the above scrnario, you don't put faith in the builder. Builders generally know how to build. We have repeated instances where houses are built by people hired to do that very thing. Faith is something else entirely.

No I am saying that you can't know for certain the person you hired will actually do a good job nor can you know that they will keep working on it after they get your money which is why a lot of people prefer to pay after a service has been rendered and not before.

When you pay for a service you are putting your faith in the ones who supplied the service, hoping that they will not just do their job but do a good job.
You could for example go to a restaurant and expect to have a pleasant experience but instead be met with incompetence because when you sat down you felt, you had faith that they would adequately provide for you what you came for.

Even if your "faith" is based upon probability estimated from past experiences you can not say for certain what the future may hold, therefore people put faith in logic that it will hold up to the merits it is believed to contain.

"Hidden underneath the stoned cold surface of every Pious Person lays buried a Kinky Pervert, Stop bringing shovels, Where not digging!"-Azrael
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