Poll: What is your view of God(s)
one almighty god
lots of smaller gods that make up one almighty god
lots of different gods that serve different purposes
slightly superior creatures that live separately to humans but still live and die
A fictional being created by man
unsure / other (please specify in comment)
[Show Results]
 
Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
What is your view of God(s)
10-15-2009, 10:43 AM
Post: #1
What is your view of God(s)
What is your view of god(s)? post here...
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-15-2009, 03:35 PM
Post: #2
RE: What is your view of God(s)
We still need to improve a lot. Option number 5 is merely 67% at this moment.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-16-2009, 04:03 AM
Post: #3
RE: What is your view of God(s)
(10-15-2009 10:43 AM)XxXHjJXxX Wrote:  What is your view of god(s)? post here...

My view, which I have discussed at length elsewhere and will not attempt to repeat here, is that considering the notion of God in the light of modern mathematical logic brings one to the conclusion that a proof of the existence (or non-existence) of God is impossible on formal grounds. Approaching the question from the metaphysical direction leads to exactly the same conclusion.

But when utilizing these same approaches and assuming the existence of God one reaches the conclusion that such a God can have no connection with any religion or with the idea of religion at all.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-16-2009, 05:55 AM
Post: #4
RE: What is your view of God(s)
(10-16-2009 04:03 AM)Parousia Wrote:  But when utilizing these same approaches and assuming the existence of God one reaches the conclusion that such a God can have no connection with any religion or with the idea of religion at all.

I agreed with the first part of your post but disagree with the last.

If god exists and created all, (including the creation of 'man and woman'), and if religion is a creation of man, then god in fact helped create religion...

Religion could simply be an adolescent phase, a necessary step, in the bigger picture of human evolution/creation...maybe we will eventually 'grow up' and move on with the process, to the next step.

namaste

NATURE cannot be HIDDEN only VEILeD with NARRATIVES that defy NATURE

CodeX4 and the Reconciliation of Science and Religion
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/about/
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-16-2009, 10:44 AM
Post: #5
RE: What is your view of God(s)
(10-16-2009 05:55 AM)Raphael Wrote:  If god exists and created all, (including the creation of 'man and woman'), and if religion is a creation of man, then god in fact helped create religion...

Religion could simply be an adolescent phase, a necessary step, in the bigger picture of human evolution/creation...maybe we will eventually 'grow up' and move on with the process, to the next step.

What I meant was that the characteristics of God assumed by religion - reward and punishment schemes, miracles, human-like emotions - are incompatible with the idea of God reached by mathematical logic or metaphysics. Religion may serve human purposes but is not 'God-given'. (BTW the capitalization of God is merely standard English convention for a transcendent deity as oposed to a merely immanent one or part of a polytheistic system.)

Religion has indeed served useful purposes throughout history and like everything else has been a two-edged sword. It is a natural part of human neurology to believe in things on insufficient evidence, a perfectly reasonable survival mechanism. It has been an important part of human societies to utilize shared beliefs to justify shared behavorial or attitudinal conventions. These neurological and social adaptations are the result of Darwinian selection and are pretty much here to stay.

What is needed is not the abolition of religion as a panacea. Even Dawkins has noted that as societies (in his case the UK) become more secular they also become much more riddled with superstitions - fortune tellers, flying saucer cults etc. If one wants to do without religion, one must replace it with something meaningful. Belief in humanism and logic spring to mind as possibilities. (Try justifying them ab initio without circular arguments or emotional support. Ya gotta believe!) Of course these can also become cults that do more harm than good. Think French Revolution or Soviet Communism. Sad
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-17-2009, 09:51 AM
Post: #6
RE: What is your view of God(s)
I am a LaVeyan Satanist, this means i do not believe in God(s) in a literal form. We use Satan more as a metaphor for mans nature, you may say, unlike theistic Satanist that worship Satan as a deity.

Though i refer to myself as an atheistic Satanist, i am in fact agnostic atheist. I do not believe there is a real possibility of a personal God that answers prayers and watches over us, for which i have many reasons that i will not get into now. I do, however see that God in a pantheistic sense is entirely possible.

The person that is truly happy is not the one who gets everything they want, but the one who learns to be happy with what they have.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-17-2009, 10:50 AM
Post: #7
RE: What is your view of God(s)
Well, I think technically pretty much all atheists are actually agnostic. Rational thought requires us to acknowledge the possibility of god, no matter how vanishingly remote that possibility is.

I call myself an atheist, however, because I have noticed that theists tend to take "agnostic" and translate it to mean "doesn't want to make a decision." The evidence is overwhelming that there is no god. It is not QUITE conclusive. It is conclusive against Judeo-Christian-Muslim concepts of god, in my opinion (as these gods must have certain parameters defined by their holy books that are impossible.)

Thus faced with the possibility of being misinterpreted as a secret theist, or being misinterpreted to believe that the evidence against god is conclusive, I prefer to be misinterpreted as the latter.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-17-2009, 01:32 PM (This post was last modified: 10-17-2009 01:33 PM by vonason.)
Post: #8
RE: What is your view of God(s)
Linguistically, the word Tawheed, in Arabic, means unification (to make something one). Islamically, it is in reference to Allaah being singled out alone, in all that is particular to Him. The opposite of Tawheed is 'Shirk' which is to associate partners with Allaah by giving (or attributing) that which is exclusively His to others.

Traditionally, Tawheed has been divided into three categories which help us to understand why Allaah alone deserves to be singled out for worship. The division of Tawheed into these three categories is something which was not done by Prophet Muhammad or any of his companions . So, is this Bid'ah (i.e., something new that has been introduced into the religion)? The answer to this is no, because we find that the basis of these three categories are to be found in the verses of the Quran, Hadeeth [authenticated Prophetic reports] of the Prophet and the statements of his companions.

The necessity for dividing up Tawheed into three categories first came about during the early days of Islam. After the death of the Prophet Islam spread like wildfire and before long the empires of Africa, Byzantium, Persia and India all fell under Muslim rule. Many people from these areas became Muslims. However some of these converts to Islam also carried with them some of their old pagan beliefs. This caused much confusion amongst people, and the simple belief of Islam which the people had accepted started to become clouded. The task of opposing these new thoughts and ideas which were becoming prevalent, fell upon the shoulders of the Muslim scholars, who rose to meet this challenge intellectually. Amongst the first people to divide Tawheed into three categories was the famous scholar of Iraq, Abu Haneefah .

Before mentioning what these three categories are, it has to be stressed that the concept of Tawheed is in no way similar to the Christian concept of trinity. The division of Tawheed does not divide Allaah up into three separate parts (as does trinity), but rather it helps us to understand as to how our Creator is Unique and Alone in being singled out for worship and reverence. The three categories of Tawheed are:

1- The Unity of Allaah's Lordship

This first category of Tawheed is known as Tawheed-Ar Ruboobiyyah or the unity of Allaah's Lordship. Through this we understand that it is Allaah Who Alone created the universe, which is why one of His divine names is Al-Khaaliq (the Creator). Through this we know that it is Allaah Alone Who controls the universe and allows things to happen. This is why Allaah refers to Himself in the Quran as Al-Malik (The Sovereign). Hence, when something happens, it only happens with the permission of Allaah, as stated in the Quranic verse (which means):

"And no calamity strikes except with the permission of Allaah" [Quran 64:11]

The Prophet further elaborated on this concept of Allaah's control over the universe by saying: "Be aware that if the whole of mankind gathered together in order to do something to help you they would only be able to do something for you which Allaah had already written for you. Likewise, if the whole of mankind gathered together to harm you, they would only be able to do something to harm you which Allaah had already written to happen to you". [At-Tirmithi]

We know that another name, which Allaah chooses to call Himself by, is Ar-Razzaaq (the Sustainer). It is Allaah who provides us with our food, shelter, clothing, families and friends. When our crops seem to be dying and there is not a cloud in sight, it is Allaah Who sends down His rain from the skies and sustains us. Allaah Says (what means):

"Allaah is the Creator of all things and He is, over all things, Disposer of affairs." [Quran 39:62]

From this you would expect that people would turn back to Allaah for good or bad fortune. However, this is not the case. Today we find some people relying on all kinds of good luck charms, which they believe will bring them good fortune and ward off evil.

These practices have absolutely no basis whatsoever in Islam, but rather the Prophet warned us by saying: "Whosoever brings something new into Islam (which does not belong to it) will have it rejected". [Al-Bukhaari]
2- The Unity of Allaah's names and Attributes

This category of Tawheed is known as Tawheed Al-Asmaa' Was-Siffaat or the unity of Allaah's Names and Attributes. Allaah Says in the Quran (what means):

"Allaah — there is no deity except Him. To Him belong the best names." [Quran 20:8]

This category of Tawheed helps us to understand Who our Creator is through His Names and Attributes. Through His Names and Attributes we know that Allaah is far beyond our imagination and bears no resemblance to human beings. In fact, it is this principle which makes Islam unique from all the other religions on the face of this earth. Allaah Says (what means):

"There is nothing like unto Him and He is the Hearing, the Seeing." [Quran 42:11]

3- The Unity of Allaah's Worship

This part of Tawheed is known as Tawheed Al-'Ibaadah, or the unity of Allaah's worship. It is this aspect of Tawheed which is the most important. It is through this that we learn how to worship our Creator alone. Allaah is not the kind of god who does not respond or hear your calls. He is not the kind of god who needs some sort of middleman to take our prayers up to Him. Rather, Allaah says (what means):

"And your Lord says, Call upon Me; I will respond to you.” [Quran 40:60]

There is nothing to prevent a person from calling directly upon Allaah and asking for His help and forgiveness. Unfortunately, this is violated by most of mankind who believe that other men can intercede for them and even grant them forgiveness because of their apparent special status! An example of this is the Catholic religion which holds that the celibate priests are purer than normal people. This allows for them to then hear the confessions of people's sins and subsequently grant them forgiveness. It is this kind of behaviour which takes a person away from the worship of Allaah to the worship of man.

As Muslims, we too should be careful of this, because it seems that many of our brothers and sisters are indulging in this kind of evil and are not even aware of it. How many Muslims are there today who call upon others besides Allaah? We find that in some countries, there are millions of Muslims who go to the graves of 'saints' and ask them for children, wealth, fame and more sadly, forgiveness. What makes this more ironic is the fact that many of these Muslims pray five times a day, and in every Rak'ah (unit) of their prayer they say the following to their Creator:

"It is You we worship and You we ask for help." [Quran 1:4]

Learning about the Tawheed of Allaah is the most important thing for the whole of humanity. For if we learn how to trust and worship our Creator with sincerity, then -and only then- will we escape from the slavery and captivity of this life. It is by worshipping Allaah alone does a man achieve true peace and success
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-17-2009, 09:29 PM
Post: #9
RE: What is your view of God(s)
(10-17-2009 10:50 AM)GTseng3 Wrote:  Rational thought requires us to acknowledge the possibility of god, no matter how vanishingly remote that possibility is.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you think this GT? It seems a little at odds with most of what you were saying when I first started reading this forum, and over the last two months you have become slightly more open that there could be even the slightest possibility of some sort of 'God'.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-17-2009, 10:16 PM
Post: #10
RE: What is your view of God(s)
Understand, the "God of the Gaps" theory is TECHNICALLY accurate. It is possible that god exists and we haven't found him yet. I've always acknowledged this.

However, this fact should never be used to support a belief in god. Especially not a steadfast religious belief. To do so is the second version of the "Argument from Ignorance" (the first being "I don't understand it, so it must be true." The second is "It is not 100% certain, therefore it must be false".)

If anything, the research that this forum has led me to conduct has only cemented my belief that there is no god. What I thought originally was just a slim chance has now become a vanishingly remote, almost certainly impossible chance. However, that is what separates the atheist from the theist. The atheist should not reject that vanishingly remote, almost certain impossible chance simply because it disagrees with him. The atheist should always be dedicated to truth, and the truth is there is a vanishingly remote, almost certainly impossible chance. It is this chance that technically makes us agnostics.

At the same time, however, this is NOT evidence for god. Anyone who says it is evidence for god is mistaken. This is simply an illustration of the truism that you cannot prove a universal negative. Those theists who believe that is the same thing as a victory from their point of view are woefully devoid of anything resembling rational thought (as Richard Dawkins loves to say, that vanishingly remote, almost certainly impossible chance also applies to the invisible pink unicorn, the orbiting teapot, the flying spaghetti monster, etc., etc. There remains no evidence of god.)

So, to summarize: There is no evidence of god. There is lots of evidence against god. This does not make god impossible, but it does make god so unlikely that any theist should be required to explain their irrational beliefs, or else dismissed as we dismiss alien abductees and those who think the President's birth certificate is faked.

Wait. That last one actually gets listened to. Which is why we need to work hard to stamp out this sort of irrational argument. In a world where arguments are required to be rational, nut-jobs will still exist, but they WON'T be made spokespeople of major news networks.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  God! From a Gnostics point of view! Azrael17 28 5,112 01-17-2010 12:24 AM
Last Post: biomystic



User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)