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What qualifies someone as human?
09-12-2011, 09:12 PM
Post: #21
RE: What qualifies someone as human?
(09-12-2011 07:46 PM)Flipper Wrote:  At least do me the decency of acknowledging that you understand that I am not talking about ALL criminals here. Or if you don't understand then there is no point continuing.

Oh sure, I understand that. But this means that somewhere, you're drawing a line. And exactly where that line is will be arbitrary.

Quote:Please demonstrate exactly where I have advocated mob rule... Agreed standards of society are not mob rule.

From what I understand, the agreement you propose is that certain people lose their right to eat. This seems to suggest that if I want to eat, I should be a little more careful about making sure I stay on the right side of the agreement. If this isn't mob rule, perhaps dictatorship? I guess this all depends on who is given the authority to forge the agreement.

Quote:Are you honestly advocating that a person has rights but no responsibilities?

Absolutely not. I don't agree that people have the right never to be in jail, everyone deserves the right to be punished. But I submit to the rule of democracy only if we can establish some basic liberties. I don't want it to ever be that I lose the right to eat. So no matter what, criminals should be given three square meals a day. This is satisfactory for me to say that I willingly submit to circumstances that if I misbehave by some agreed rule, I can be imprisoned. If three squares are off the table, count me out. I think we forget that fundamentally, we choose to submit to the rule of society.

Understand, I don't plan on misbehaving and agree that those who do should be fairly punished. But I'm not the sole arbitrator of what constitutes wrongdoing. And even if I plan on never being on the wrong side of the law, things can change. So it's only fair that there's some kind of safety net (criminal rights).

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09-12-2011, 09:45 PM
Post: #22
RE: What qualifies someone as human?
(09-12-2011 09:12 PM)jrpurdon Wrote:  Oh sure, I understand that. But this means that somewhere, you're drawing a line. And exactly where that line is will be arbitrary.

I'm not drawing the line exactly, I am asking the question. I believe there should be a line somewhere but exactly where I am not so sure.

Aren't all of the standards of society arbitrary? Does that mean we should abandon all standards?

Quote:From what I understand, the agreement you propose is that certain people lose their right to eat.

Not at all. If you draw that arbitrary line and you cross that line then you should not expect to have your rights/priviledges protected. If you fall below that line then by all means your rights should be protected the same as any other individual.

I would not object if a person who had crossed that line was kept alive for the sole purpose of medical testing that would benefit the rest of humanity, failing that I think a death sentence is entirely appropriate.

Just for the sake of clarity, and I've said so before, I believe that there would be extremely few actual cases that crossed that line. In my view that line should be set so high that only the most brutal acts against another human being would cross it.

Quote:So no matter what, criminals should be given three square meals a day.

Never said they shouldn't. All I've said is that they should not expect to have their rights protected if they cross that line. If they cross the line and they are not to be executed then they should be provided the basic necessitites (like Maslows "basic" needs).

He who has a why to live for can bear almost any how. - Nietzsche
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02-24-2017, 05:16 AM
Post: #23
RE: What qualifies someone as human?
Love and Emotions for others whether it's a human being or animal. Help the needy ones and work for humanity and mankind are the some qualities which makes us a true human being.
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05-17-2017, 10:43 AM (This post was last modified: 05-17-2017 10:46 AM by Anglican.)
Post: #24
RE: What qualifies someone as human?
Quote:Or more succinctly, is there an act that a person could perform that would justify a person forfeiting their basic human rights.

"Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person."

I suppose somebody could forfeit that right by robbing a bank; at least temporarily.
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05-17-2017, 04:27 PM (This post was last modified: 05-17-2017 06:38 PM by clarence clutterbuck.)
Post: #25
RE: What qualifies someone as human?
(09-10-2011 02:09 AM)Flipper Wrote:  This is a follow on firm the Animal Testing thread.

What is the qualification for being considered deserving of basic human rights?

Or more succinctly, is there an act that a person could perform that would justify a person forfeiting their basic human rights.

Is a person that knowingly and deliberately dehumanises or in any other way harms another person or group of persons in such a way as to completely degrade that person or group of people deserving of even the most basic consideration that one would afford the most simple of creatures?

I think that there is a line which once crossed a person forfeits all consideration that is owed to a human being.

What that line is however, I have still not clarified to myself but I believe that it exists.

One example that springs to mind at the extreme end of the scale is mass genocide. But where would be the lower end of the scale?

I think everyone should be accorded the right to life and the right not to be treated cruelly, whatever their crimes. I think it degrades the punishing authority and the people inserting the cannulas and pushing the buttons when people are executed. I'm okay with prison sentences for murderers and perpetrators of crimes against humanity, with whole life sentences for offenders whose offences are beyond the pale or who pose a continuing threat to society.

Execution smacks of revenge - and I think revenge is one of those natural instincts that we should strive to suppress rather than indulge. Murderers are frequently motivated by an instinct for revenge against loved ones or employers or society in general. The sanctioning of judicial revenge killings may deliver "closure" for those family members who inhabit the observation seats in America's death chambers, but by these customs, the revenge mentality that creates killers is perpetrated rather than eliminating the root cause of the malaise.

As to addressing the root causes, I think we should strive to create kinder, gentler societies where people aren't lured into going off the rails. Eliminate deprivation and make sure everyone gets enough to eat. Don't have rapacious firearms industries that supply the public with deadly weapons with which they can create tear-jerking murder dramas. Get people to use their bare hands if they're absolutely determined to kill each other. I'm sure this would lower the incidence of murder in formerly tooled up societies, and the few determined killers that remain would at least be those prepared to get their heart rates up while doing the deed, and would therefore probably represent a fitter class of felon that would save costs to the public purse of maintaining their health while in prison.
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