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What's the point?
02-22-2009, 04:11 PM (This post was last modified: 02-22-2009 04:24 PM by Pilgrim.)
Post: #1
Question What's the point?
Now, I can understand why religious folks contribute by sharing their faith. For most, at least Christians, it's because they think people that don't believe are going to pay a really high and awful price for not being right with God and they don't want them to.

But what about the non-believers amongst us? I mean if there's no God what's the problem and why even bother to make a case at all? What's the threat? If God doesn't exist then the believing population aren't going to suffer even a really nasty surprise when they die because it's just oblivion right? Well, unless yer a Hindu, a Buddhist or Tom Cruise and yer right, in which case you'll just get another go around
.

So why? What's the point of wasting your time arguing about something you don't believe exists? Why not just let all those poor deluded believers get on with it and as Prof. Dawkins says 'Stop worrying and get on with your life'?

Just a thought. Smile

"Love is not a feeling, it's an act of your will." Don Francisco.
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02-22-2009, 04:42 PM
Post: #2
RE: What's the point?
Its hard for anyone (of any persuasion) to reasonably expect to accomplish much more than satisfy intellectual curiosity, and maybe (at most) plant a seed.

I think that most people (at least many of those on a site like this) have the "search for truth" complex, in both the sense of wanting to discuss their own views, and wanting to discuss other people's views; plus, there's always a bit of pride at stake - everyone likes to have their beliefs vindicated. Wink

I also think that many people just find it interesting to talk about, though, and don't really need any other motivation than that.

If you should see evident sins or defects, draw out of those thorns the rose; perceiving, moreover, that such apparent sinners may frequently have a good intention, for no one can judge the secrets of the heart of man.
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02-23-2009, 03:38 AM
Post: #3
RE: What's the point?
Hmm...*nods* Fair comment. I know that GT wants his views challenged.

"Love is not a feeling, it's an act of your will." Don Francisco.
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02-23-2009, 09:53 AM
Post: #4
RE: What's the point?
I always find it interesting that each group, organized or not, feels their position is correct. I am also constantly saddened at the differences among each group. Those are the things that make the 'Meeting of the Minds' impossble.

I try to respect someone else's views and beliefs -- after all, we each have the right to our own beliefs. I'm all for open discussion and debate, but I get completely out of the loop when I'm railed against and called nine kinds of stupid for my faith. In reality, what does it matter what I personally believe? I'm smart enough not to impose my beliefs on others in certain places, such as work, school, etc.

While I believe, 100% in my faith and would love for everyone else to be, also, I have to keep in mind that as much as I believe in my faith, others believe in theirs in equal amounts.

Some day, we'll all know. If I'm wrong and my faith is nothing more than a hoax, it's not going to matter. I'd rather live this life with the faith, belief and personal relationship that gives me, personally, a greater sense of being.

In the end, all boiled down, does it matter to me what others believe? Yes, greatly. But, beyond sharing my faith, I can't make up someone else's mind nor change their opinion, especially if they believe as strongly in their case as I do in mine. I know, beyond a sliver of a doubt, that I'll never change my belief, so I have to respect anyone else who is as firm in their stand.

Justice -- When you get what you deserve.
Mercy -- When you don't get what you deserve.
Grace -- When you get what you don't deserve.
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02-23-2009, 11:44 AM (This post was last modified: 02-23-2009 11:45 AM by Pilgrim.)
Post: #5
RE: What's the point?
Ummm...I wasn't criticizing a non-believer's right to...well...not believe hon. Just curious about their motivations. Does it come across that way? *worried look*

"Love is not a feeling, it's an act of your will." Don Francisco.
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02-23-2009, 01:10 PM
Post: #6
RE: What's the point?
Oh no, not at all!! I wasn't poking ...

I think I may have misread and misunderstood your OP. I think I read it, at first, for anyone: What's the point. I was just responding to the 'what's the point in wasting time arguing about something you don't believe exists' comment. My thoughts on what's the point were that if I'm wrong, then ... I'm wrong ... but if I'm right, have I left a tidbit for someone to remember?

I promise that my post was not heated in any way. Just my thoughts ... Smile

Justice -- When you get what you deserve.
Mercy -- When you don't get what you deserve.
Grace -- When you get what you don't deserve.
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02-24-2009, 03:18 AM
Post: #7
RE: What's the point?
Well, my primary purpose for being here is so that I can test my conclusions against the ideas of others, and if need be refine my conclusions (as a rationalist, this is key to my understanding of the universe.)

I will admit, however, that I have seen even the most innocuous of religions ruin lives, as human nature tends toward abuse of any belief system (this also applies to the falsely-called atheists who have created their own religion based on anti-theism.) Furthermore, I am of the opinion that the only truly liberated life is the atheist life, one that forges its own purpose without relying on any higher being. Even if you manage to control the human tendency toward fanaticism enough to keep your faith innocuous, your faith restricts your behavior for mythical, rather than logical reasons, and you may well fail to achieve your full potential because of that.

I'm not exactly evangelical about this opinion, and I do not accost my Christian friends and demand that they become Atheist (indeed, if they are unable to discuss religion calmly and rationally without feeling threatened then I do not discuss the subject with them, in general), but I do believe that only Atheism allows for us to explore our full potential without limitation.
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02-24-2009, 03:23 AM
Post: #8
RE: What's the point?
To Alison: Thanx hon. Was just worried that our non-believing contributors might see it as sniping which wasn't the intent.

To GT: Thanx Bud. That's interesting. What do you mean by their full potential without limitation?

"Love is not a feeling, it's an act of your will." Don Francisco.
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02-24-2009, 04:53 AM
Post: #9
RE: What's the point?
Religions by their very nature are restrictions from an outside source. You do certain things because God tells you to. Some restrictions from an outside source (the law, your job) are inevitable, but I've always felt you should strive to have as few of these as possible. Some laws are necessary to maintain society, but frivolous laws should be done away with whenever possible. Jobs must be worked to gain money and live, but the job should never become the life. Religions are simply another unnecessary restriction. Depending on the religion this restriction may be fairly minor, but even minor unnecessary restrictions do restrict, and enough of them can hamper a person's life.

It's simply baggage that does not need to exist.
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02-24-2009, 06:55 AM (This post was last modified: 02-24-2009 06:55 AM by Anglican.)
Post: #10
RE: What's the point?
(02-24-2009 03:18 AM)GTseng3 Wrote:  Even if you manage to control the human tendency toward fanaticism enough to keep your faith innocuous, your faith restricts your behavior for mythical, rather than logical reasons,

Whether or not something is logical depends upon your presuppositions. Neither logic nor science is absolute (and you have the word of a scientist, by the name of Robert Winston, for that).
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