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When will Islam live up to its name?
03-17-2010, 07:45 AM
Post: #1
When will Islam live up to its name?
There is good in Muhammad's conceptualization of Islam but there is much that shows the limits of 7th century Arab morality and knowledge of the world and of God. 1400 years is a long time to go without spiritual contact from God. Islam needs a Reformation and Muslims need to go beyond Muhammad in order to be relevant for the 21st century and the new millennium.

Islam does hold the promise of being a true religion of peace within its name, the root of which means submission to God as peace. But as is, Islam is not a religion of peace at all but one of war. Allah is a war god who demands Muslims fight in the way of Allah. This is a great contradiction in Islamic doctrine and non-Muslims who think for themselves will never be converted to Islam as long as Muslims act out the Quran's war campaign to convert the whole world to Islam. I hope someday Islam becomes Islam, a true religion of peace. I believe Muslim women will lead the coming Islamic Reformation so that all Muslims can join the modern world as equals before God, equals without a war agenda that allows true religious freedom for all.
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03-18-2010, 06:05 PM
Post: #2
RE: When will Islam live up to its name?
Islam will never changed
Islam is for peace and no one care If you believe or not
Islam does not make male and female the same because they are not
But give every one his rights
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03-18-2010, 10:59 PM
Post: #3
RE: When will Islam live up to its name?
(03-18-2010 06:05 PM)muslim girl Wrote:  Islam will never changed
Islam is for peace and no one care If you believe or not
Islam does not make male and female the same because they are not
But give every one his rights

If Islam never changes then Islam is a dead man walking for God is God of the living, not the dead. Only the very foolish would believe one 7th century man's ideas were the final word on God. Muhammad wasn't female, neither were any of the prophets he claims as forerunners. And neither are any of the Muslim leaders following the male chauvinist religion where Allah is a "He" and seems unable to value any women true worth as equal to that of men. This used to be the case for Judaism and Christianity but these two religions have changed, thank God, and with change, equality and human rights have become protected for women as equal to men. To back up a religious belief system that intends to keep women as property of their men in their homes and keeps women imprisoned in their clothes unable to use any of the feminine ways that help equalize their power with men, only shows how blind faith blinds your eyes to freedom. We non-Muslims really wonder if most all Muslim women suffer from a Stockholm Syndrome where they've come to love their captors and see captivity as a blessing.
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03-19-2010, 05:38 AM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2010 06:04 AM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #4
RE: When will Islam live up to its name?
Here is a good article, apparently taken from the New York Times:

"...scholars agree that there is no evidence of the Koran until 691 -- 59 years after Muhammad's death -- when the Dome of the Rock mosque in Jerusalem was built, carrying several Koranic inscriptions...These inscriptions differ to some degree from the version of the Koran that has been handed down through the centuries, suggesting, scholars say, that the Koran may have still been evolving in the last decade of the seventh century. Moreover, much of what we know as Islam - the lives and sayings of the Prophet - is based on texts from between 130 and 300 years after Muhammad's death...The revisionist school of early Islam has quietly picked up momentum in the last few years as historians began to apply rational standards of proof to this material..."

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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03-19-2010, 08:29 AM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2010 08:31 AM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #5
RE: When will Islam live up to its name?
Stereophonic, these are sour grapes to console yourself on losing your supposed literal word of God, created by choosing different books in circulation decades and centuries after crucifixion.

For those whose hearts are not sealed in prejuidice against Islam:

http://knol.google.com/k/zia-shah/compil...umbuyp/54#

http://knol.google.com/k/zia-shah/the-pu...umbuyp/72#
(03-17-2010 07:45 AM)biomystic Wrote:  1400 years is a long time to go without spiritual contact from God. Islam needs a Reformation and Muslims need to go beyond Muhammad in order to be relevant for the 21st century and the new millennium.

Your wish has come true. Ahmadiyya Muslim Community believes that Messiah of this age came in keeping with the prophecies of the Prophet Muhammad, may peace be on him, in the person of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Check out the official website:

Alislam.org

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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03-19-2010, 02:30 PM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2010 02:30 PM by muslim girl.)
Post: #6
RE: When will Islam live up to its name?
Biomystic and stereophonic what you are speaking is wrong I swear
Around the dome of rock in palatine that what was written by gold
((.. Built the dome of Imam Abdullah secure the faithful in the year seventy-two Allah accept it ...))
There was a fault in that
Historical say because war between two kings
However that is not Quran
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03-19-2010, 02:49 PM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2010 02:50 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #7
RE: When will Islam live up to its name?
(03-19-2010 02:30 PM)muslim girl Wrote:  ...stereophonic what you are speaking is wrong I swear...

I'm not saying these things on my own authority--I'm quoting what other scholars have said, and of course I know that there are always at least two sides to any question.

The problem with Islam, in my opinion, is that Islam does not permit open and honest inquiry. Many people are afraid to ask serious questions about Islam and its origins because of the violent behavior of some (more than just a few) Muslims whenever such questions are raised. But the questions will never go away until Muslims themselves are willing to ask scholarly questions and investigate the matters.

It would be nice if this forum would give people an opportunity to ask these kinds of questions and get pointed in the direction of real answers. Unfortunately, all I get from Ahmadi and Qwer99 are cut-and-paste spam from sources that are unscholarly.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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03-19-2010, 03:12 PM
Post: #8
RE: When will Islam live up to its name?
(03-19-2010 08:29 AM)Ahmadi Wrote:  Stereophonic, these are sour grapes to console yourself on losing your supposed literal word of God, created by choosing different books in circulation decades and centuries after crucifixion.

For those whose hearts are not sealed in prejuidice against Islam:

http://knol.google.com/k/zia-shah/compil...umbuyp/54#

http://knol.google.com/k/zia-shah/the-pu...umbuyp/72#
(03-17-2010 07:45 AM)biomystic Wrote:  1400 years is a long time to go without spiritual contact from God. Islam needs a Reformation and Muslims need to go beyond Muhammad in order to be relevant for the 21st century and the new millennium.

Your wish has come true. Ahmadiyya Muslim Community believes that Messiah of this age came in keeping with the prophecies of the Prophet Muhammad, may peace be on him, in the person of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Check out the official website:

Alislam.org

From the Ahmadiyyah website:

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah has full knowledge of all things." – The Holy Quran (33:41)

Without going beyond Muhammad's religious vision Muslims are still stuck in ancient religious mythologies in which evil acts of believers are not recognized because believers think themselves beyond moral scrutiny if they follow the father's ancient ideas. Abraham is a prime example of how Abrahamic believers are unable to recognize evil when it comes dressed up in story form in their Scriptures.

You can't grow a good garden when there are weeds growing all over it. You have to pull the weeds out first and that is what needs to happen with Islam. It's full of weeds, full of inciting verses to think evil of your neighbor if he or she doesn't subscribe to your Abrahamic belief system. This is why Abrahamics in action throughout their history are responsible for so much unnecessary violence done to non-Abrahamics as well as to fellow Abrahamic believers. What would you expect of a caravan robbing warlord but a religion easily set in motion as a war campaign. You and fellow Muslims are part of this campaign right now, trying your best to attack and discredit Christianity and doing it on the flimsiest of excuses, on Muslims self-congratulatory narcissistic idea their prophet and his book is better than the rest of the Abrahamic bunch when there is zero evidence for this belief, especially in our times when everyday Muslims are blowing someone to pieces.

Ahmadi, why defend a religion that doesn't accept you? If you need group mind think in order to believe in God why not find a truly sincere religious affiliation which doesn't attack you and your brethren for holding different beliefs than the mainstream believers? Are you too held psychological captive in a Stockholm Syndrome?
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03-19-2010, 03:51 PM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2010 04:13 PM by muslim girl.)
Post: #9
RE: When will Islam live up to its name?
(03-19-2010 02:49 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  
(03-19-2010 02:30 PM)muslim girl Wrote:  ...stereophonic what you are speaking is wrong I swear...

I'm not saying these things on my own authority--I'm quoting what other scholars have said, and of course I know that there are always at least two sides to any question.

The problem with Islam, in my opinion, is that Islam does not permit open and honest inquiry. Many people are afraid to ask serious questions about Islam and its origins because of the violent behavior of some (more than just a few) Muslims whenever such questions are raised. But the questions will never go away until Muslims themselves are willing to ask scholarly questions and investigate the matters.

It would be nice if this forum would give people an opportunity to ask these kinds of questions and get pointed in the direction of real answers. Unfortunately, all I get from Ahmadi and Qwer99 are cut-and-paste spam from sources that are unscholarly.

Ok you could go to the rock Dom and see what is written around it is not Quran
What these questions you can ask If you want
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03-19-2010, 03:56 PM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2010 03:58 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #10
RE: When will Islam live up to its name?
(03-19-2010 03:51 PM)muslim girl Wrote:  ...you could go to the rock Dom and see what is written around it is not Quran...

I'm not in a position to travel to the Dome of the Rock, but even if I were, whatever is written on it now would tell me very little about what may have been written on it previously, or when it was written, or by whom it may have been originally written or subsequently changed.

Scholarly questions require scholarly answers; unfortunately, Islam doesn't allow scholarly questions to be openly raised and debated, and therefore Islam does not yet have the capability to provide credible, scholarly answers to these questions.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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