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Who coined the term 'Trinity?'
02-27-2010, 08:06 AM
Post: #1
Who coined the term 'Trinity?'
I just read in Wikipedia:

Though conservative, Tertullian (160-220 AD) did originate and advance new theology to the early Church. He is perhaps most famous for coining the term Trinity (Latin trinitas) and giving the first exposition of the formula. Other formulations that first appear in his work are "three Persons, one Substance" as the Latin "tres Personae, una Substantia" (itself from the Koine Greek "treis Hypostases, Homoousios").

(In Adversus Praxean; see Barnes for a summary of the work.)

I was wondering what do other friends think.

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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02-27-2010, 01:58 PM (This post was last modified: 02-27-2010 09:28 PM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #2
RE: Who coined the term 'Trinity?'
(02-27-2010 11:40 AM)Stereophonic Wrote:  ... You don't know or care or accept what Christians believe about the Trinity, so you are in no position to instruct anyone in this regard. ...

Sir Thomas Walker Arnold (1864, Devonport, Devon - 1930) was an eminent British orientalist who taught at MAO College, Aligarh Muslim University, then Aligarh College, and Government College University, Lahore. He was a friend of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, and wrote his famous book 'The preaching of Islam' at the request of Sir Syed. He was also the teacher of famous poet-philosopher Muhammad Iqbal and a very close friend of Shibli Nomani who was also a teacher at Aligarh.

once, he was having difficult time explaining the doctrine of Trinity to his Indian Muslim students. After a little while, out of his British arrogance, at that time India was a colony of the Great Britain, he declared that the Asian mind is not capable of understanding the essence and intricacies of Trinity.

An Indian Muslim retorted, if that be the case, then Jesus Christ or his apostles did not understand it either as they were also Asians. The legendary professor was silenced.

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02-27-2010, 09:50 PM (This post was last modified: 02-27-2010 10:03 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #3
RE: Who coined the term 'Trinity?'
(02-27-2010 01:58 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  ...The legendary professor was silenced.

I take it the point of this anecdote is that one should avoid making blanket statements about the intellectual capacities of an entire race of people?

If so, then the Palestinians are going to have to revise all of their school textbooks that describe Jews as pigs inside human skin.
(02-27-2010 08:06 AM)Ahmadi Wrote:  ...I was wondering what do other friends think.

I wonder when an exposition of the theory of gravity was first presented? Did gravity not exist before the theory was first formulated? Should we abandon the theory of gravity because it took so long for humans to articulate it in scientific terms?
(02-27-2010 01:58 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  ...he was having difficult time explaining the doctrine of Trinity to his Indian Muslim students...

And here is a quote from The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam, written a century ago by Ahmadi's "Promised Messiah":

"…when a person is unable to appreciate something on the basis of his finite reason he criticises that which is based on wisdom and his criticism becomes proof that that point of wisdom is above and beyond the reach of average minds" (p. 167).

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03-01-2010, 11:31 AM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2010 11:55 AM by Ahmadi.)
Post: #4
RE: Who coined the term 'Trinity?'
There seems to be so much emphasis in study of Christianity to try to find the orthodox position. What does this say about the orthodoxy that the term of 'Trinity,' was not even coined till 200 AD?

My humble suggestion here is that it took 450 years, and 4 Ecumenical Councils to articulate Trinity, that was opposed to the Jewish understanding and is opposed to all known religions.

To a non-Christian it would seem fairly natural that if God is going to send a message to mankind at least He will introduce Himself and not wait for theologians to introduce Him 450 years later.

The other point, that I want to respectfully make here is that the concept of Trinity is not only difficult for Asian mind to perceive but for any free thinking Homo sapiens.

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03-01-2010, 12:36 PM
Post: #5
RE: Who coined the term 'Trinity?'
I agree that Christianity is in a class all by itself in comparison with other religions of the world.

It is well known that truth is often stranger than fiction. How many of us find quantum physics and string theory instantly intuitive and fully comprehensible? Why should anyone be surprised that God's revelation of himself requires us to stretch our finite minds in an attempt to glimpse the Infinitely Transcendent?

After all, your own "Promised Messiah" said, "…when a person is unable to appreciate something on the basis of his finite reason he criticises that which is based on wisdom and his criticism becomes proof that that point of wisdom is above and beyond the reach of average minds" (The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam, p. 167).

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03-01-2010, 12:49 PM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2010 12:50 PM by Raphael.)
Post: #6
RE: Who coined the term 'Trinity?'
(02-27-2010 08:06 AM)Ahmadi Wrote:  I was wondering what do other friends think.

Quote:Is the Trinity in the Bible?

Those who do not accept the Trinity doctrine reject it in part because the word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture. Of course, there is no verse that says "God is three Persons" or "God is a Trinity." This is all quite evident and true, strictly speaking, but it proves nothing. There are many words and phrases that Christians use, which are not found in the Bible. For example, the word "Bible" is not found in the Bible.

More to the point, opponents of the Trinity doctrine claim that a Trinitarian view of God’s nature and being can’t be proven from the Bible. Since the books of the Bible are not written as theological tracts, this may seem on the surface to be true. There is no statement in Scripture that says, "God is three Persons in one being, and here is the proof. . ."

What do I think?
I think the western bible babblers are fookin' IGNORANT of other beliefs.
Most of you are too entrenched and invested in one narrative.
I like them all.

Instead of wasting any time defending the Father, Son, Holy Ghost concept...
I would explore why the other belief systems also have trinities?

Brahma Shiva Vishnu in India?

Or why in China that has Confucianism, Taoism and Buddhism, the LEFT side is revered but in the west where Judaism, Christianity and Islam play host to the world perspectives, the RIGHT side is revered?

Eh ever ask yourself those questions?

namaste

NATURE cannot be HIDDEN only VEILeD with NARRATIVES that defy NATURE

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03-01-2010, 01:57 PM
Post: #7
RE: Who coined the term 'Trinity?'
(03-01-2010 12:36 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  I agree that Christianity is in a class all by itself in comparison with other religions of the world.

It is well known that truth is often stranger than fiction. How many of us find quantum physics and string theory instantly intuitive and fully comprehensible? Why should anyone be surprised that God's revelation of himself requires us to stretch our finite minds in an attempt to glimpse the Infinitely Transcendent?

Is that all you have to say in response to what I wrote, challenging the very foundation and orthodoxy of Christian beliefs:

There seems to be so much emphasis in study of Christianity to try to find the orthodox position. What does this say about the orthodoxy that the term of 'Trinity,' was not even coined till 200 AD?

My humble suggestion here is that it took 450 years, and 4 Ecumenical Councils to articulate Trinity, that was opposed to the Jewish understanding and is opposed to all known religions.

To a non-Christian it would seem fairly natural that if God is going to send a message to mankind at least He will introduce Himself and not wait for theologians to introduce Him 450 years later.

The other point, that I want to respectfully make here is that the concept of Trinity is not only difficult for Asian mind to perceive but for any free thinking Homo sapiens.

I am second coming of Thomas Paine. If you are a Christian, have you read Age of Reason?
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03-01-2010, 03:17 PM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2010 03:33 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #8
RE: Who coined the term 'Trinity?'
(03-01-2010 01:57 PM)Ahmadi Wrote:  ...Is that all you have to say in response to what I wrote...

The word "Trinity" is simply a shorthand way of referring to the fact that the one Creator God has revealed himself to us as a loving Father, an obedient Son, and a transforming Spirit. It is a shorthand way of expressing our belief that there is "fecundity and dynamism" within the "eternal triune life" of God. It is a shorthand way of saying that in God "there is differentiation and otherness rather than sheer mathematical oneness." It is a shorthand way of summarizing our conviction that "Otherness is the presupposition of personal relationship; it is the sine qua non of the event of love" (Faith Seeking Understanding, p. 77).

In short, Christians believe that God is Love, and Love can only be experienced within communion and relationality. If God were a solitary monad, as Islam claims, then the eternal God could not be eternally loving.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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03-01-2010, 03:38 PM
Post: #9
RE: Who coined the term 'Trinity?'
In 325 C.E., Constantine convened a council of bishops in Nicaea in Asia Minor. His purpose was to resolve the continuing disputes over the relationship of the Son of God to God. Regarding the results of that council, Encyclopedia Britannica says: “Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed… the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, ‘of one substance with the Father.’ Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.”

As originally published, the entire creed stated: “We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things visible and invisible; “And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten from the Father, only-begotten, that is, from the substance of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, of one substance with the Father, through Whom all things came into being, things in heaven and things on earth, Who because of us men and because of our salvation came down and became incarnate, becoming man, suffered and rose again on the third day, ascended to the heavens, and will come to judge the living and the dead;

And regarding the holy spirit; the creed does not say that Father, Son, and holy spirit are three persons in one God. All it says is that “we believe.. in the Holy Spirit.”
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03-01-2010, 03:54 PM
Post: #10
RE: Who coined the term 'Trinity?'
Obviously there are a lot of different understandings of Trinity, that is why there needed to be 4 Ecumenical Councils to come to an understanding in the Catholic Church and after millions had been declared heretics. The verbosity of Stereophonic's above post does not compensate for the basic problem that Trinity has always been a stumbling block for the thinking.

In his book ‘The Historical Figure of Jesus’ Sanders analyzes what we know about Jesus, may peace be upon him. On the issue of his divinity and title as ‘Son of God,’ he writes:

"The early Christians, then, used ‘Son of God’ of Jesus but they did not think that he was a hybrid, half God and half human. They regarded ‘Son of God’ as a high designation, but we cannot go much beyond that…. The first followers of Jesus, however, when they started calling him ‘Son of God’, would have meant something much vaguer: a person standing in a special relationship to God, who chose him to accomplish a task of great importance."

Sanders, E.P., The Historical Figure of Jesus, The Penguin Group, England, 1993, p.244-245.

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