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Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?
06-14-2010, 03:46 PM
Post: #1
Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?
Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?

John 3:35
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

In our human world, it is custom for fathers to readily die for their children.
Given the choice, I do not know of any man that would not willingly save his son’s life by giving up his own. After all, we live for our children.
We often say that the sons should bury the fathers and consider it a great breach of the norm and an injustice for fathers to have to bury their sons.

If, on earth as it is in heaven has any meaningful truth to it, should God the Father not be the one to willingly die for His son?

If God is to be our example, are most of us ignoring His example and in that way breaking the first commandment by putting our own desires over His and thus placing some other idea above Him?

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
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06-14-2010, 07:15 PM (This post was last modified: 06-14-2010 07:15 PM by lostsurf9111.)
Post: #2
RE: Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?
According to fundamental Christianity, they are one and the same. So does it really matter?
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06-14-2010, 08:21 PM
Post: #3
RE: Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?
(06-14-2010 03:46 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?

John 3:35
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

In our human world, it is custom for fathers to readily die for their children.
Given the choice, I do not know of any man that would not willingly save his son’s life by giving up his own. After all, we live for our children.
We often say that the sons should bury the fathers and consider it a great breach of the norm and an injustice for fathers to have to bury their sons.

If, on earth as it is in heaven has any meaningful truth to it, should God the Father not be the one to willingly die for His son?

If God is to be our example, are most of us ignoring His example and in that way breaking the first commandment by putting our own desires over His and thus placing some other idea above Him?

Regards
DL

Dear DL
Why pretend you understand everything you read in the Bible?
Why pretend you know what God wants, or even who or what God is?
Why put words into God's mouth when you have not really defined who or what God is?
By telepathy it is possible to recall past lives. The method needs to be learned, may not be easy for some, but it is there for your own use. I learned it. It opened doors for me, opened windows into the past lives and one of the most astonishing one was the life of Herodias, wife of Antipas, in who's service Mary and Joseph lived and worked. Joseph was a carpenter, Mary a maid.
Antipas was the son of Herod. When Herod divorced his mother, she moved in with Antipas, bringing her younger children. Herodias and Antipas worried about the siblings laying claims to his throne, so one by one they began butchering and feeding them to the dogs. When Mary realized what was happening, she organized rescuing the surviving ones. She managed to smuggle two out, who then were taken to Egypt.
When Jesus grew up and became popular Herodias took to inviting him in for talks. It was then that Jesus began to finger the children's murders, alarming Herodias who then set out to frame him. The rest is history.
The collection of writings pertaining Jesus were from his trial records, false testimonies, etc. Note the absence of any reference tothe squeeky clean Herodias. Mark was her son by a former marriage, Matthew was her brotherLuke was her family doctor.
Not so romantic, is it?
Kathie Bondar
http://www.ThinkTankGraphics.ca
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06-14-2010, 11:05 PM
Post: #4
RE: Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?
Well, since we're free to express our own views of the Story of Jesus Christ, here's another point of view about why God would demand His Son's sacrifice. What if God the Father was trying to reestablish the correct spiritual relationship between God the Father and the Son of God which in ancient Canaan was one where EL Elyon, God Most High was God the Father and Yahweh, was a Son of God? What if God didn't like the Lucifer-like stunt the priests and scribes of Judah pulled by writing EL more or less out of the picture when they falsely elevated Yahweh, their tribal god, to EL's position as TOP GOD? What if God, EL was punishing Yahweh for Yahweh's power play by taking it out on Yahweh's human name-sake, Jesus, so that through the Story of Jesus EL reestablished the true Father to Son relationship between EL and Yahweh? What if Yahweh was "cleansed" by Jesus' sacrifice, made spiritual ready to do a proper replacement of Father with the Son become the new Father? It works for me but then I'm a religious visionary who doesn't answer to anyone but God.
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06-15-2010, 08:40 AM (This post was last modified: 06-15-2010 08:45 AM by Greatest I am.)
Post: #5
RE: Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?
(06-14-2010 07:15 PM)lostsurf9111 Wrote:  According to fundamental Christianity, they are one and the same. So does it really matter?

Yes. If things are to be on earth as they are in heaven.
If a fundamental does not follow God's example then he goes to hell.

MONOtheism = one.

God the father-------- 1
God the holy spirit-----1
The God part of Jesus- 1
The man part of Jesus- 1

Hey, that makes four heads.

If Christians are to follow the Trinitarian view, they should have all three heads knowing all the same information. Scripture says they do not and even have us treating them differently with different penalties for cursing one over the other.

Even a lawyers brain would have a headache trying to keep up with those silly notions.

Regards
DL
(06-14-2010 08:21 PM)Kathie Bondar Wrote:  
(06-14-2010 03:46 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?

John 3:35
The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

In our human world, it is custom for fathers to readily die for their children.
Given the choice, I do not know of any man that would not willingly save his son’s life by giving up his own. After all, we live for our children.
We often say that the sons should bury the fathers and consider it a great breach of the norm and an injustice for fathers to have to bury their sons.

If, on earth as it is in heaven has any meaningful truth to it, should God the Father not be the one to willingly die for His son?

If God is to be our example, are most of us ignoring His example and in that way breaking the first commandment by putting our own desires over His and thus placing some other idea above Him?

Regards
DL

Dear DL
Why pretend you understand everything you read in the Bible?
Why pretend you know what God wants, or even who or what God is?
Why put words into God's mouth when you have not really defined who or what God is?
By telepathy it is possible to recall past lives. The method needs to be learned, may not be easy for some, but it is there for your own use. I learned it. It opened doors for me, opened windows into the past lives and one of the most astonishing one was the life of Herodias, wife of Antipas, in who's service Mary and Joseph lived and worked. Joseph was a carpenter, Mary a maid.
Antipas was the son of Herod. When Herod divorced his mother, she moved in with Antipas, bringing her younger children. Herodias and Antipas worried about the siblings laying claims to his throne, so one by one they began butchering and feeding them to the dogs. When Mary realized what was happening, she organized rescuing the surviving ones. She managed to smuggle two out, who then were taken to Egypt.
When Jesus grew up and became popular Herodias took to inviting him in for talks. It was then that Jesus began to finger the children's murders, alarming Herodias who then set out to frame him. The rest is history.
The collection of writings pertaining Jesus were from his trial records, false testimonies, etc. Note the absence of any reference tothe squeeky clean Herodias. Mark was her son by a former marriage, Matthew was her brotherLuke was her family doctor.
Not so romantic, is it?
Kathie Bondar
http://www.ThinkTankGraphics.ca

Thanks for not speaking to the issue.

Regards
DL
(06-14-2010 11:05 PM)biomystic Wrote:  Well, since we're free to express our own views of the Story of Jesus Christ, here's another point of view about why God would demand His Son's sacrifice. What if God the Father was trying to reestablish the correct spiritual relationship between God the Father and the Son of God which in ancient Canaan was one where EL Elyon, God Most High was God the Father and Yahweh, was a Son of God? What if God didn't like the Lucifer-like stunt the priests and scribes of Judah pulled by writing EL more or less out of the picture when they falsely elevated Yahweh, their tribal god, to EL's position as TOP GOD? What if God, EL was punishing Yahweh for Yahweh's power play by taking it out on Yahweh's human name-sake, Jesus, so that through the Story of Jesus EL reestablished the true Father to Son relationship between EL and Yahweh? What if Yahweh was "cleansed" by Jesus' sacrifice, made spiritual ready to do a proper replacement of Father with the Son become the new Father? It works for me but then I'm a religious visionary who doesn't answer to anyone but God.

And what if in your what ifs, pigs could fly?

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
Find all posts by this user
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06-15-2010, 03:49 PM
Post: #6
RE: Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?
What if you posted a response beyond crummy soundbite put-downs?
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06-15-2010, 03:55 PM
Post: #7
RE: Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?
(06-15-2010 03:49 PM)biomystic Wrote:  What if you posted a response beyond crummy soundbite put-downs?
.....lol bio , short and to the point .
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06-16-2010, 09:38 AM
Post: #8
RE: Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?
(06-15-2010 03:49 PM)biomystic Wrote:  What if you posted a response beyond crummy soundbite put-downs?

I have seen already that you cannot reason well and it is my hope that tough love works.

There must be a way to enlighten your mind and I do whatever I think might work. Reason failed so a spanking might succeed.

Regards
DL

God is a cosmic consciousness.
Our next evolutionary step.
No choice.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
06-16-2010, 01:20 PM
Post: #9
RE: Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?
(06-16-2010 09:38 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(06-15-2010 03:49 PM)biomystic Wrote:  What if you posted a response beyond crummy soundbite put-downs?

I have seen already that you cannot reason well and it is my hope that tough love works.

There must be a way to enlighten your mind and I do whatever I think might work. Reason failed so a spanking might succeed.

Regards
DL

Gee, thanks for the warning, Dad. I promise not to talk back to you again...NOT! Nyaaa-nya-ny-nyanya...Wink
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06-17-2010, 12:09 AM
Post: #10
RE: Who should have died? God the Father or God the Son?
Well, one of the most ludicrous ideas, in my opinion, is the trinity. It speaks in no way to logic. Also, please do not use the argument of "You are not supposed to understand god and his ways." If so why are we created with a logical brain. If god wished for worshiping idiots he should have created us as such.
As for the topic, I doubt I could form any reason for either to die. Did God need a sacrifice of himself or his son (himself or his father...)?
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