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Why I am Glad God Does Not Exist
03-30-2010, 01:06 PM
Post: #1
Why I am Glad God Does Not Exist
This thread is essentially a response to Hillbilly whom asked me a question that goes along the lines of:

Why do you not want there to be a god?

Let me preface this by mentioning that when I refer to God in this thread, I will be referring to the desert Gods or the Abrahamic religions, namely Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. These three faiths do not objectively allow one to simply believe in God for the sake of it, no; belief in God comes with "baggage." To believe in God means to believe in law x or reality y; to believe in the desert gods means to believe in world views shaped by that religion and supporting scripture. As for the millions of other gods where belief does not involve "company protocol", they are inconsequential and would not inconvenience me in the slightest even if they did exist. In short, I am referring to gods that come with rules or truth statements about the Universe or human condition. One of those inescapable conditions is sin.

Not only are you born into a world of sin through no fault of your own, but the very second you emerge from the confines of your Mother's womb, you are nothing but a worm; a sinful no-good worm that's existed for all of a few seconds. My first question is: How can you look down at your new miracle of life with the word 'sin' even in mind? The second your child is born--if you are religious--her destiny is laid before her: beg for God's forgiveness or rot in hell, for from this day forth you shall be judged. Life on this planet as you know it is nothing more than a landscape with which to prove yourself until the real fun begins in the afterlife, providing you've begged your way into God's "good books." And the religious say that atheists can't value life? Yet you have the audacity to claim that the true purpose of life is to beg like a dog on the floor, hands clasped, a life of serfdom in the name of something that doesn't even exist? You might think that a life well spent but I'm not willing to take that chance, and as Bertrand Russell once so wonderfully put it, if one day I reach the pearly gates I will say to the almighty, "But lord, you didn't provide me any evidence." Of course, as hypocritical as say Christians actually are, of course they don't live their lives to the book; they've tried that in the past and we know how disgusting and backwards that turned out to be. For the most part, religion in my eyes is simply a waste of time. Why go sit in a mundane, depressing church on a Sunday to listen to some oppressed pervert when I could be out playing football or visiting museums with my wife?

Secondly, religion by definition is the antithesis to skepticism. If we had not broken free of the shackles of the church we would not be where we are today. The Earth would still be flat, the Earth the centre of the Universe, I would be burned alive for opening this post, then sent to Hell to rot with the rest of the heathens. Thank goodness brave men wholly committed to the truth did not stand down despite the obvious consequences.

Why would you ever teach a child not to think for himself? Why would you ever answer an innocent question with "God did it."? One of the greatest gifts of the Universe is the human mind, and one of the most useful endeavours is to use it to question and scrutinise and theorize. Religion necessarily dulls the sense of wonder and replaces it with primitive scripture and unfalsifiable loops of nonsense. Not only this, but religion attaches itself to the childish uncertainty of the unknown. Me don't want to die so me going to exist after I do. Grow up and enjoy what little time you have under the sun. God will not save your child dying of cancer, medicine and doctor-care will; praying for your husband to survive a heart-attack will not improve his chances of survival, medical-care and luck will. Out of all the things I dislike about religion, it's this infantile wishful thinking that irks me the most.

Hillbilly, I have studying to do so will continue this later.

We would be 1,500 years ahead if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake
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03-30-2010, 01:44 PM
Post: #2
RE: Why I am Glad God Does Not Exist
Thank you for proving my earlier point, which was that whenever someone rails against "God," that person is not really railing against God, but rather against that person's inaccurate understanding of God--and this misunderstandig is, of course, nothing more than a straw man.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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03-30-2010, 01:47 PM
Post: #3
RE: Why I am Glad God Does Not Exist
Are you going to tell me now that sin is not the most important facet of Christianity?

We would be 1,500 years ahead if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake
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03-30-2010, 01:52 PM
Post: #4
RE: Why I am Glad God Does Not Exist
Sin is most certainly not the most important facet of Christianity. Forgiveness and love trump sin every time.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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03-30-2010, 01:53 PM (This post was last modified: 03-30-2010 02:28 PM by Secular Hobbit.)
Post: #5
RE: Why I am Glad God Does Not Exist
Okay, let me rephrase the question: Is every human being brought into the world guilty of sin?
(03-30-2010 01:44 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  Thank you for proving my earlier point, which was that whenever someone rails against "God," that person is not really railing against God, but rather against that person's inaccurate understanding of God--and this misunderstandig is, of course, nothing more than a straw man.

One thing I forgot to add, Stereo, trust me, my understanding of God is just as accurate as yours because by definition it is impossible to know the mind of God. On numerous occasions I have invited you to show me otherwise, since if you have access to this information I would love to exploit it and sell it to all the broadcasting stations on the planet for billions of dollars.

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03-30-2010, 03:09 PM (This post was last modified: 03-30-2010 03:09 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #6
RE: Why I am Glad God Does Not Exist
(03-30-2010 01:53 PM)Secular Hobbit Wrote:  ...Is every human being brought into the world guilty of sin?

Nope. We are born trapped in a vicious cycle of sin from which we cannot extricate ourselves by mere human effort.


(03-30-2010 01:53 PM)Secular Hobbit Wrote:  ...by definition it is impossible to know the mind of God...

By definition, if God chooses to reveal himself through the person of Jesus, and if Jesus tells us about God, then to that extent we can know the mind of God. But yes, everything we think we "know" in this life is as if we were looking into a distorted mirror--this is the universal human condition.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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03-30-2010, 03:16 PM
Post: #7
RE: Why I am Glad God Does Not Exist
(03-30-2010 03:09 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:  
(03-30-2010 01:53 PM)Secular Hobbit Wrote:  ...Is every human being brought into the world guilty of sin?

Nope. We are born trapped in a vicious cycle of sin from which we cannot extricate ourselves by mere human effort.


(03-30-2010 01:53 PM)Secular Hobbit Wrote:  ...by definition it is impossible to know the mind of God...

By definition, if God chooses to reveal himself through the person of Jesus, and if Jesus tells us about God, then to that extent we can know the mind of God. But yes, everything we think we "know" in this life is as if we were looking into a distorted mirror--this is the universal human condition.

Okay thanks for the semantics, every person is born into the world sinful. Now we've cleared that up, if one can not extricate oneself from this terrible human condition (again, I'm so happy religion is nonsense) by human effort, how is one supposed to extricate oneself?

The BIG IF! How long have you guys been waiting for God to reveal himself now, and how long has he been letting you down? When is the next BIG DAY? Let me retract my facetiousness a second and ask a serious question: what do you think the consequences are of you not being a "good" Christian whatever that may mean to you?

We would be 1,500 years ahead if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake
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03-30-2010, 03:21 PM (This post was last modified: 03-30-2010 03:22 PM by Stereophonic.)
Post: #8
RE: Why I am Glad God Does Not Exist
(03-30-2010 03:16 PM)Secular Hobbit Wrote:  ...if one can not extricate oneself from this terrible human condition (again, I'm so happy religion is nonsense) by human effort, how is one supposed to extricate oneself?

We can't. That's why Jesus suffered with us and for us, so that God could forgive us without also and thereby disolving the moral nature of humans and rendering all of our actions and attitudes of no consequence.


(03-30-2010 03:16 PM)Secular Hobbit Wrote:  ...what do you think the consequences are of you not being a "good" Christian whatever that may mean to you?

Whatever we do in this life that is good and creative and conducive to human flourishing will stay with us in the next life, when we will be given even greater opportunites to express our creativity and good will to others.

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03-30-2010, 03:29 PM
Post: #9
RE: Why I am Glad God Does Not Exist
There you go again with information that is unknowable, Stereo. I want to know a few things:

- Where are you getting this information from?
- Why don't I have -- or atheists have -- access to it?
- Why the hell would Jesus have to suffer for it? Why didn't God just wipe the slate clean? After all he created us, right?
- So this life is a mere springboard into the next life where if you're a good boy, you'll be rewarded with lots of fun stuff?

I'm sorry man, but you seem like such a rational person until we discuss religion. Does it ever occur to you that you might be wrong? Does it ever occur to you that you get your information from a book that was written by ignoramuses? Do you ever think these things or are you really completely blind to it?

We would be 1,500 years ahead if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake
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03-30-2010, 04:02 PM
Post: #10
RE: Why I am Glad God Does Not Exist
(03-30-2010 03:29 PM)Secular Hobbit Wrote:  Where are you getting this information from?

Scripture, history, philosophy, and my own life experience.


(03-30-2010 03:29 PM)Secular Hobbit Wrote:  Why don't I have -- or atheists have -- access to it?

You're not even trying to learn.


(03-30-2010 03:29 PM)Secular Hobbit Wrote:  Why the hell would Jesus have to suffer for it? Why didn't God just wipe the slate clean? After all he created us, right?

God gave us a great gift--the ability to make meaningful choices and to enjoy genuine relationships. If God were to simply say, okay, your choices don't matter one whit to me, then all of the good gifts that God gave us would be nullified.


(03-30-2010 03:29 PM)Secular Hobbit Wrote:  So this life is a mere springboard into the next life where if you're a good boy, you'll be rewarded with lots of fun stuff?

This life was made good. God gave us a good environment and gave us meaningful work to do. Humans chose to mess things up, and the next world is God's way of using our evil (and God's own subsequent suffering) to create something even better than we would otherwise have had.


(03-30-2010 03:29 PM)Secular Hobbit Wrote:  ...Does it ever occur to you that you might be wrong?...

I could be wrong, but I keep trying to learn more--and in any event, I do not suffer by loving God with all my might and loving my neighbor as myself. From what I know of how others lead their lives, I think my life is more fulfilling than most.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/ --- http://www.ntwrightpage.com/
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