Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Why the OT and the NT are BS...
04-30-2010, 11:10 AM
Post: #1
Why the OT and the NT are BS...
I have debated many Christians, and for the most part this thread is dedicated to them.

The OT is BS due to its inability to stay consistant.

Thou shall not kill: God can Kill though
ex of god killing)LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7
god orders killings) EX 32:27, DT 7:2, 13:15, 20:1-18
Angels killing) 2KI 19:35
God produced Genocide) NU 31:17-18, DT 7:2, JS 6:21-27, 7:19-26, 8:22-25, 10:20, 40, 11:8-15, 20, JG 11:30-39, 21:10-12, 1SA 15:3

And this is JUST in reference to OT killing... Not to mention adultry, lies, god acting just like satan... etc.

I have had the pleasure of hearing the backtracking that many people take when I ask about the immorality of the OT. The most common answer that is given is that the OT is more of a guidline rather than a holy book that needs to be followed to the letter. But heres the damning connection.

1. Adam, the first sinner, is more of a symbolic charecter rather than a real one. but hes the one that was responsible original sin right?

2. Jesus died to forgive original sin. and this is for past, present, and future sins.

But if Adam was symbolic, and the OT is more of a guide, then what was the point of the death of Jesus? why does god send him to be tourtured? why praise him? and why does it matter than the OT prophicies "come true" in the NT?

It seems a though jesus was more of an ethical and moral teacher, like ghandi or buddah... but not worthy of worship. His story is obviously embelished and falsely promoted to keep people obedient to authority.

If the OT collapses as false, then the NT follows suit.

Thoughts?

The Todd
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
05-04-2010, 12:07 PM
Post: #2
RE: Why the OT and the NT are BS...
Sumerian:

The gods had decided to destroy mankind. The god Enlil warned the priest-king Ziusudra ("Long of Life") of the coming flood by speaking to a wall while Ziusudra listened at the side. He was instructed to build a great ship and carry beasts and birds upon it. Violent winds came, and a flood of rain covered the earth for seven days and nights. Then Ziusudra opened a window in the large boat, allowing sunlight to enter, and he prostrated himself before the sun-god Utu. After landing, he sacrificed a sheep and an ox and bowed before Anu and Enlil. For protecting the animals and the seed of mankind, he was granted eternal life and taken to the country of Dilmun, where the sun rises.


This was written between 3000 and 2000 BC

LOOK FAMILIAR ????

THE VERSION IN THE OLD TESTAMENT ( plagiarism )


:-) or if you prefer this version...READING is a wonderful thing

BABYLONIAN

Three times (every 1200 years), the gods were distressed by the disturbance from human overpopulation. The gods dealt with the problem first by plague, then by famine. Both times, the god Enki advised men to bribe the god causing the problem. The third time, Enlil advised the gods to destroy all humans with a flood, but Enki had Atrahasis build an ark and so escape. Also on the boat were cattle, wild animals and birds, and Atrahasis' family. When the storm came, Atrahasis sealed the door with bitumen and cut the boat's rope. The storm god Adad raged, turning the day black. After the seven-day flood, the gods regretted their action. Atrahasis made an offering to them, at which the gods gathered like flies, and Enki established barren women and stillbirth to avoid the problem in the future.


you all really should read something other then the bible, you eyes will become opened.............................


:-)
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
05-04-2010, 12:16 PM
Post: #3
RE: Why the OT and the NT are BS...
I'm not really trying to get bogged down in a hardcore exegetical debate, and I'm sure there are plenty of valid arguments one could make for Biblical contradictions, but you really should try to research a bit more. For example, the Bible never says thou shall not kill; the word used is tirtsah, which is closer to what we would call "murder" (it also includes what we would call "manslaughter"). The point is that the 10 commandments do not demand pacifism, they demand that killing of other human beings be justified socially/ legally. Even if this wasn't true, to attempt to hold God to the rules that He created for a specific tribe of humans hardly seems to be a genuine way to interpret scripture in light of actual Abrahamic beliefs.

"Religion is solely the creation of the scholar's study... Religion has no existence apart from the academy."
-JZ Smith, Imagining Religion
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
05-04-2010, 12:50 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2010 12:50 PM by prdamico.)
Post: #4
RE: Why the OT and the NT are BS...
(05-04-2010 12:16 PM)Wilder Wrote:  I'm not really trying to get bogged down in a hardcore exegetical debate, and I'm sure there are plenty of valid arguments one could make for Biblical contradictions, but you really should try to research a bit more.

Your kidding me right, I should do MORE RESEARCH ??

and there is NO DEBATE:

( THE WRITTEN HISTORICAL RECORD IS NOT DEBATABLE)

The old testament is a history of the MESOPOTAMIAN people

mainly Sumerian mythologies, but none the less very little original Hebrew/Jewish history.

NOT, a history of the Hebrew/Jewish people.



YOU DEAR SIR/MAM, need to do a little more

RESEARCH.......and open YOUR eyes...
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
05-04-2010, 01:20 PM
Post: #5
RE: Why the OT and the NT are BS...
I was actually speaking to the OP's claims about the 10 Commandments, not your post.

"Religion is solely the creation of the scholar's study... Religion has no existence apart from the academy."
-JZ Smith, Imagining Religion
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
05-04-2010, 01:51 PM
Post: #6
RE: Why the OT and the NT are BS...
(05-04-2010 01:20 PM)Wilder Wrote:  I was actually speaking to the OP's claims about the 10 Commandments, not your post.

My apologies then.


:-)
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
05-04-2010, 02:54 PM
Post: #7
RE: Why the OT and the NT are BS...
(05-04-2010 12:16 PM)Wilder Wrote:  I'm not really trying to get bogged down in a hardcore exegetical debate, and I'm sure there are plenty of valid arguments one could make for Biblical contradictions, but you really should try to research a bit more. For example, the Bible never says thou shall not kill; the word used is tirtsah, which is closer to what we would call "murder" (it also includes what we would call "manslaughter"). The point is that the 10 commandments do not demand pacifism, they demand that killing of other human beings be justified socially/ legally. Even if this wasn't true, to attempt to hold God to the rules that He created for a specific tribe of humans hardly seems to be a genuine way to interpret scripture in light of actual Abrahamic beliefs.

ok so let me get this straight... GOD can tell us what to do, but he wont play the same rules? wha do you think about the various accounts of genocide that David and his crew committed? what about every killing that was done in the name of god? all of these were justified?

I understand that the translation that everyone knows is off. it should actually should be translated as "thou shal do no murder"... and to be honest it only applies to other jews, not to any body else. "love thy neighbor", means your actual neighbor... and if you were in an ancient jewish settlement... who would be your neighbor? other jews.

so my problem here is that the laws that we live by, and the laws that the govt wants to put in our courthouses. really only apply to those people who wrote the crap in the first place. and they didn't apply it universally, only communally.

I've done my research my friend. i was using this as an EXAMPLE only.

and doesn't this sound weird..."the jews are the chosen tribe"?

doesn't this sound like favoritism? fascism, where a selected few are the best? how is this good? why would god do this? and to say that "its gods will and his leve lof thinking is higher than ours" is the biggest cop out in the history of Bulls**ting. because its normally the people who get the benifits of being chosen that dont question the order of things.


and ill concede that the 10 commandments do not promote pacifism. why why shouldn't they? how are these the best rules to go by?

my original point was that the OT is full of so much BS, and the NT relies so heavily on it, that neither are true or good. It was fabricated to make people believe that a select few are better than the rest. Fascism...

The Todd
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
05-04-2010, 03:15 PM
Post: #8
RE: Why the OT and the NT are BS...
Like I said, I'm not trying to defend Christianity as a whole, just to draw attention to some problems I see with that one point. So, keeping specifically to that,

Quote:ok so let me get this straight... GOD can tell us what to do, but he wont play the same rules? wha do you think about the various accounts of genocide that David and his crew committed? what about every killing that was done in the name of god? all of these were justified?
Generally speaking, in Abrahamic religions God is an infinite that constitutes the foundation of all levels of existence. As such morality is, in its most basic essence, a matter of whether or not something or someone is in alignment with the will of God. God, being infinitely perfect, is always in alignment with Himself; anything done by God is by definition good. Humans, not being infinite or perfect, must look to God for proper moral ethics. From within this cosmological and ethical perspective, it does not make sense for an infinite being to create rules for humanity that apply to itself as well, much like how you might routinely break rules that apply to your pets.

For many followers of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, Biblical genocides would thus be justified as they were the will of God. As is pretty typical of religion it's difficult to generalize, though. For example, I have read some Biblical scholars who view depictions of genocide in the Old Testament as evidence of Biblical fallibility, citing these passages as examples of ancient Israelites altering scriptures to justify and glorify their own actions.

"Religion is solely the creation of the scholar's study... Religion has no existence apart from the academy."
-JZ Smith, Imagining Religion
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
05-06-2010, 01:28 PM
Post: #9
RE: Why the OT and the NT are BS...
(05-04-2010 03:15 PM)Wilder Wrote:  Like I said, I'm not trying to defend Christianity as a whole, just to draw attention to some problems I see with that one point. So, keeping specifically to that,

Quote:ok so let me get this straight... GOD can tell us what to do, but he wont play the same rules? wha do you think about the various accounts of genocide that David and his crew committed? what about every killing that was done in the name of god? all of these were justified?
Generally speaking, in Abrahamic religions God is an infinite that constitutes the foundation of all levels of existence. As such morality is, in its most basic essence, a matter of whether or not something or someone is in alignment with the will of God. God, being infinitely perfect, is always in alignment with Himself; anything done by God is by definition good. Humans, not being infinite or perfect, must look to God for proper moral ethics. From within this cosmological and ethical perspective, it does not make sense for an infinite being to create rules for humanity that apply to itself as well, much like how you might routinely break rules that apply to your pets.

For many followers of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, Biblical genocides would thus be justified as they were the will of God. As is pretty typical of religion it's difficult to generalize, though. For example, I have read some Biblical scholars who view depictions of genocide in the Old Testament as evidence of Biblical fallibility, citing these passages as examples of ancient Israelites altering scriptures to justify and glorify their own actions.

ok, i guess i can understand that. but its still pretty F**K**G stupid. The problem with this is that we still dont know if god is a real thing or not. so to take what he does as moral guidance.... is just, above all, insane. A guy, i will repeat... A GUY (of flesh and blood), can read the bible and assume that genocide, killing, rape, and everything else is alright... because "god" condones it.

as for the whole pets comment... the only thing i expect my dog not to do is sh_it or p_iss on the carpet. and i am proud to say... i don't do that either. not because i wish to lead by example, but because its not cool.

The problem i have with these genocides and killings is that the majority of people will not take it as "gods will"... but will convert any message into hatred for anyone who is different from them. for the most part the christian right hates, muslims, many jews (not all of course, you have to like your broker and your lawyer), queers, women who get abortions, men who condone abortions, liberals, black power, communists... etc...

and i must ask (not just to you wilder) when in your life has it been nessesary to kill a whole group of people? NEVER, what makes you think it was the same back then? it was because thats how SOCIETY worked back then and it was encorporated in the bible.

The Todd
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
05-06-2010, 03:17 PM
Post: #10
RE: Why the OT and the NT are BS...
One thing I see, as to the point of these books, is a partial statement purely of history, and one of pure speculation at reasons of life.

When it comes to God killing, I would look at something like that to be some sort of ultimate reason for death. An example is Jews killing Egyptions with the Angel of Death. In this case you see that people die when they are not allowing of other peoples desires. For its time, God was the only reason why things happened, so they allowed him to be the reason for these things. When in truth, at least FANTASTICALLY..they are the ones needing these things to happen. So really, God, in a fact of anyones statement, cannot be aluded to being responsible. Unless God himself came down and said I did it, its the humans all the way.

The best piece of information I can give you about Jesus's death is to look at the situation. They killed him. Because he said he was the son of God?? Well, today, if someone made water into wine and manifested bread, I don't think we'd kill him just because he said those exact words.

To me, the bible is a representation of time alone, and the New Testement is the life of Jesus, the only true man worth calling a man really from that time. The old testement, lol, insanity...purely. The change in time from the old to new testement is so bizaar that it is hard to think that they actually cared to write such amazing stuff down about themselves. I just wonder exactly what they thought was going to come of it all.

I would see him like Ghandi, yeah, but more like God because of the magic. To say, we killed Saddam because he went against people, they killed Jesus because he loved them. The times have changed for the best, that is all I get out of the book in regards to direct observations.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)