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Yes, Jesus WAS God
03-10-2010, 08:25 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2010 09:23 AM by TheCatholic.)
Post: #1
Yes, Jesus WAS God
The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God (cf. John 8:58, 10:38, 14:10; Col. 2:9). And yes, Jesus DID say he was God. In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. "So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59). In John 5:18 we are told that Jesus’ opponents sought to kill him because he "called God his Father, making himself equal with God."

In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, "My Lord and my God!" (Greek: Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou—literally, "The Lord of me and the God of me!")

Philippians 2:6 says that Jesus "who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped" (New International Version). So Jesus chose to be born in humble, human form though he could have simply remained in equal glory with the Father for he was "in very nature God."

Also significant are passages that apply the title "the First and the Last" to Jesus (Rev. 1:17). This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: "Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’" (Is. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).

This title is directly applied to Jesus three times in the book of Revelation: "When I saw him [Christ], I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the First and the Last’" (Rev. 1:17). "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life’" (Rev. 2:8). "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end" (Rev. 22:12–13).

This last quote is especially significant since it applies to Jesus the parallel title "the Alpha and the Omega," which Revelation earlier applied to the Lord God: "‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8).

But did the early Christians believe this? YES! Here are some quotes:

Ignatius of Antioch: "Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God" (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

Aristides: "[Christians] are they who, above every people of the earth, have found the truth, for they acknowledge God, the Creator and maker of all things, in the only-begotten Son and in the Holy Spirit" (Apology 16 [A.D. 140]).

Clement of Alexandria: "The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning—for he was in God—and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things" (Exhortation to the Greeks 1:7:1 [A.D. 190]).

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03-10-2010, 09:09 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2010 09:18 AM by julio.)
Post: #2
RE: Yesa, Jesus WAS God
You will fail the exam if you insist on this gross error!
Jesus never declared himself God.
Other followers said it for him.
They said it when Jesus was no longer around to correct them.
Of course, this is a central dogma of the pope's cult, with which popes MERCHANDISE for their own gain.
Religion is gain game from ignorance.
[From: The Catholic Church - The Truth -
I argued:]
Jesus never said "I am God" to any in the "apostolic college"!
The "I am" is tripe.
It doesn't say "I am God", period.
Like "I and the Father are One."
It doesn't say "I and the Father am one God.", does it?
Three serious witnesses are supposed to have attested the sentence as it appears in that verse:
the HG which inspired it did not add "God" to it, when it would be the very best opportunity to do it!
Then John was supposed to read the draft ten times before sending it to the scribes for publication, and left it WITHOUT the term "God"!
And third, Jesus would have been intelligent enough to conclude the sentence, if he meant "one God"!!
Learn while you have time.
Besides, friend, John's gospel is a gnostic production of the second century, not written by any apostle John.
Higher Criticism establishes that it is impossible to establish anything as genuine in that gospel.
That is, nobody can assure the student that Jesus spoke any of what he is "saying" in that gospel.
Sure, the pope takes sure advantage of biblical IGNORANCE, because it suits his agenda, that's all.
John's gospel is secondhand stuff.
It is so easy to prove, but I will tell you only if you ask me.
I obviously have noticed that you are a presumptuous catholic and hard to learn anything besides what the pope legislates.
Too bad, my friend.
Did you learn anything here?
Do you understand that the Holy Ghost had ALL the motivation to inspire Jesus to add the word "God" to his sentence "I and the Father are one!"?!!...
Do you see it or don't you?
It was an unique opportunity.
"I and the Father are ONE GOD, did you hear apostolic college?!"
And they would hear.
"I and my Father in heaven are ONE GOD, I repeat, to avoid centuries of infernal debates about such a trivial matter! Please, John, when you finally write your gospel in sixty years time, don't you please forget to add the title GOD to the sentence, to avoid even KILLINGS in my holy church for such a stupid debate!!"
And the apostles would hear.
Religion is one big mess.
So, bottom line:
Jesus did NEVER declare himself God, period.
Learn the basics now.

More bakeries less churches; more baking powder less religion.
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03-10-2010, 09:27 AM
Post: #3
RE: Yes, Jesus WAS God
Here are many more verses showing that Jesus allowed Himself to be worshipped, simply because He was God "manifest in the flesh":

While he spoke these things to them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay your hand upon her, and she shall live
—Matthew 9:18

Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth you are the Son of God
—Matthew 14:33

Then she came and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me
—Matthew 15:25

And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him
—Matthew 28:9

When they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted
—Matthew 28:17

He received their worship because He was the image of the invisible God…

[color]—Colossians 1:15) …God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory…[/color]
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03-10-2010, 09:36 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2010 09:40 AM by julio.)
Post: #4
RE: Yes, Jesus WAS God
False teaching, again.
"proskuneō" was not WORSHIP.
Modern versions refuse to translate the word as "worship".
It was kissing the hand or kneeling in respect.
No Jew would worship any man!!!
Jesus was not recognized as any God at the time of his wanderings.
You are trying to interpret your Bible according to Trent, but that is dishonest.
No Jew would worship any man, per se.
No way Jose!
Religion is idol worship.
Paul was a dangerous bigot, who knew nothing about the future.
He was totally deluded in his fanatical obfuscation.
He has no credentials among the intelligent student of the Bible.
He is the prophet who stupidly prophesied that Jesus would come back in his own days, but he missed it now for TWO THOUSAND YEARS and counting!
Therefore, when a prophet misses his most important prophecy he is a LIAR.
Credit should not be given to any such "prophet", period!
Religion is false prophets by the ton.

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03-10-2010, 09:58 AM
Post: #5
RE: Yes, Jesus WAS God
It's quite clear that Jesus was more than man.

[Bible]الكتاب المقدس
For the Lord Jesus
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03-10-2010, 10:03 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2010 10:06 AM by TheCatholic.)
Post: #6
RE: Yes, Jesus WAS God
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03-10-2010, 10:04 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2010 10:04 AM by julio.)
Post: #7
RE: Yes, Jesus WAS God
(03-10-2010 09:58 AM)BerjanoushLe Wrote:  It's quite clear that Jesus was more than man.
Like what?
All the miracles in the gospel of John are fabrications, or stories with gnostic undertones.
There is no historical evidence that Jesus existed.
Apollonius of Tyana could have been this Jesus guy, retouched to taste.

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03-10-2010, 10:06 AM
Post: #8
RE: Yes, Jesus WAS God
(03-10-2010 09:58 AM)BerjanoushLe Wrote:  It's quite clear that Jesus was more than man.

Yes. The denial of Christ's divinity first arose in the 4th century. It is known as Arianism, named after the arch-heretic Arius who said that Jesus was only a created being and not divine.

The Council of Nicea dealt with this in 325 AD. What is interesting to note is that this was dealt with before the New Testament was even canonized in the 390's AD. So the Church that declared Christ was both God and Man is the same Church that canonized the New Testament.

The result of the Council's decision is encapsulated in the Nicene Creed (note the underlined sections):

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
one in being with the Father.

Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN.
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03-10-2010, 10:14 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2010 10:15 AM by julio.)
Post: #9
RE: Yes, Jesus WAS God
Arians were slaughtered and killed to uphold this god's attribute.
Hence, the faith committed CRIME to defend Jesus' deity!
Some god needs to be taken to a court of law for judgement.
Imagine a Bible saturated with inspiration by the HG incapable
of putting the matter in clear terms so that NOBODY is KILLED for so little!!!
Arians were martyred because the HG messed up inspiration!
The Trinity is COMMERCE with superstition.
Religion is criminal when it kills to defend God.

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03-10-2010, 10:51 AM
Post: #10
RE: Yes, Jesus WAS God
Not only do all three branches of Christianity (Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox) accept Christ as God, so do the smaller churches. I found these "Tucson Community Church" materials from this website:

The Simple Answer

The explanation of the Trinity is so simple that most people miss it.

-If God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit were the same, they would not have different names.
-If they were the same, they would not appear separately as they do in Matthew 3:16,17.
-In spite of being different, they are “one.” (John 10:30)
So we understand that the three “members” of the Trinity are different, but have the same purpose (and they are all God—more on that later).

A Rough Analogy

About 20 years ago, Dr. Harold Willmington (Liberty University) shared an analogy he had heard with his students, comparing the Trinity to a book. For example, a book has length, width, and thickness. The length is not the book’s width, the width is not the book’s thickness. These three dimensions can be described separately, yet they are connected together. If you remove one dimension, you are no longer describing a book. In the same way, the Godhead has three separate members that are connected together, and if you try to remove one you no longer have the Godhead.

God Is One

God is described as “one” in Deuteronomy 6:4, 1 Kings 8:60, Isaiah 44:8 and numerous other passages. For example, Deuteronomy 6:4 says “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!” The word for “one” is the Hebrew word ‘echad. (This Old Testament text was originally written in Hebrew). This is the same Hebrew word that is used for “one” in Genesis 2:24—Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

In case you haven’t noticed when a man and woman are married they do not melt into one human being, becoming some sort of hybrid. Yet, they do become “one.” We could cite other examples, but we have made our point.

God Is More Than One

Genesis 1:26, Genesis 3:22, Genesis 11:7, Isaiah 6:8, and other passages are examples of conversations within which God uses the word “we” or “us.” However, God is not referring to any others (people, angels, etc.) in these verses. Since God is having a conversation, the “we” and “us” must therefore refer to the Trinity. You might say that God speaks to Himself in the plural form.

The Trinity Is God

Matthew 28:16-20 is a passage referred to as “The Great Commission.” In verse 19, Jesus states, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”

Why did Jesus tell his eleven disciples to baptize people in the names of all three members of the Trinity? Why not one or two? It is obvious from this passage that the entire Trinity is God.

Jesus Is God
We understand that many people agree that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit exist. (We are sure that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are relieved to hear that! ) These same people may even agree that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are “working together.” However, the followers of several cults are taught that Jesus is “just a prophet,” or “only the son of God”—not God. This wrong viewpoint is easily clarified by looking at two Bible verses: Isaiah 9:6, and Isaiah 43:12 (below).

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God [0410],
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 43:12
I have declared and saved,
I have proclaimed,
And there was no foreign god among you;
Therefore you are My witnesses,”
Says the LORD [03068], “that I am God [0410].”
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