Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
all religions are false
04-09-2009, 04:46 PM
Post: #1
all religions are false
i'm sorry to piss on all of your fire's but religion is a complete and utter lie.
Answer me this all you believers, how can 'god' exist when the theory of evolution is apparent? i've heard people say that 'god' put dinosaur bones here to "test our faith". i laughed so hard i nearly cried.

Another question. If there is a 'god' then why does he let famin, genocide, rape and countless other atrocities that affect our world go on?
Some people aswer this question by saying "god works in mysterious ways" but that's got to be the worst answer i've ever heard. Absolutely pathetic.
Christianity is based on Egyptian belief, as is all religion. It is also heavily undertoned with stars and the night sky.
It began as a roman story, which has grown into an obscenity.

I can see why people believe in religion, they want have faith in something. I have no problem with faith, but it's the faith in what they're believing in is what gets me.
These poor people are wasting their time praying, sacrificing and dedicating themselves to an 'almighty power' that they've never even seen?
come on guys, there's more proof that ghosts exist than god.
when i see 'god', that's when i'll believe, no sooner.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-09-2009, 05:39 PM
Post: #2
RE: all religions are false
You're on the right track, friend. You just need to refine it a bit. For one thing, there have been several religions in the world that arose independently. Egyptian religion definitely influenced Christianity, but it isn't the godfather of all religion.

That's all I've got, a little historical nitpick. I'll let the actual theists debate your other points. That second point you have, the one about why god allows the world to be the way it is . . . that's the clincher for me. There's a recent episode of "Family Guy" that deals with Brian's atheism, with Meg and the rest of the Griffin's trying to convert him. He uses all sorts of logical arguments, just trying to get some tolerance for his belief. Finally, while being brought to a church-sanctioned book burning, he unleashes the only argument that gets through - pointing out that if there was a god, he would never have made Meg's life so miserable.

I rarely make arguments from Family Guy, but I've gotta say that I cracked up.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-09-2009, 06:19 PM
Post: #3
RE: all religions are false
i'm glad you agree. what's the name of that episode btw? sounds good. i like family guy!
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-09-2009, 06:51 PM
Post: #4
RE: all religions are false
It's the latest one. It was on Hulu for a while, but they removed it because of some legal thing (same time they cut the number of episodes there down to five. I think Fox is making them delay releases for a week). It hasn't aired on Cartoon Network yet.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-09-2009, 09:17 PM
Post: #5
RE: all religions are false
I'll attempt to answer your questions with my opinions.

First of all, I don't see any conflict between belief in God and the theory of evolution. To me, evolution on our planet is the result of the universe God set in motion. Call it the watchmaker philosophy if you want. I take the story of Genesis as an effort of people who lived thousands of years ago to explain the origins of life the only way they knew how. That is to say, I don't take it literally. That's all I say for now in the hopes this thread can avoid some sort of creationism debate.

In response to why does God allows suffering, it's not a matter of permitting evil, but one of evil occurring as the result of our free actions. I believe this to be because we as human beings have free will and have control (perhaps not absolute) over our actions and have the ability to at least influence our destinies. I believe God gave human beings free will because he would rather see humanity make a conscious display of devotion and adoration of him than create a world of hopelessly devoted slaves. Sure, there would be no evil or suffering in that world because all people would be born instinctively loving God, but because that love would lack free choice, it would be a hollow and fruitless love. Would you rather the love of your life come to adore you in his or her own way or would you rather slip them a love potion and have them your slave for the rest of their life?

I also take it you mean to say you have no problem with faith, but are disgusted as I am by the blind, often destructive faith of the fundamentalist, not the content of faith claims generally speaking.

Hope that gives you a better idea of where some theists are coming from and dispels the notion we are all raving psychos.

If truth is one, it is not possible for something to be scientifically false and religiously true.

-Baha'u'llah
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-10-2009, 04:09 AM
Post: #6
RE: all religions are false
-undersigns karma_sleeper-

Yeah, the only thing that really comes to mind after reading the OP is to urge you to look into and learn about various religions. To me, it sounds like you've been around too many American fundamentalists (do you live in the Bible Belt?) - you may not have accepted their claims as truth, but you certainly seem to have accepted their claims as representative of religious folk.

If you should see evident sins or defects, draw out of those thorns the rose; perceiving, moreover, that such apparent sinners may frequently have a good intention, for no one can judge the secrets of the heart of man.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-10-2009, 04:34 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2009 04:36 AM by zanaz.)
Post: #7
RE: all religions are false
Why God allow suffering? (sure based on Islamic view)
Indeed, Allah is all-powerful and he is able to do all things and Qur’an mentioned this hundred of times. It is also mention that Allah is the creator, the best creator. “Glory be to Allah, the best creator” (almuminun14).

Looking around us, we find sickness, old age and death. We see things that are ugly, people who are insane and foolish, there are storms, earthquakes, floods, draught and famine. We also see people commit sins, show disloyalty, unfaithfulness, greed and insincerity. We see people commit rapes and murders; they fight and make wars. We know all these and so many problems. There are evils caused by human beings and there are natural disasters. There are suffering for individuals and there are those that involve a large number of people.

But we can’t deny that besides all these negative things, we also see beauty, health, prosperity, life, birth, wisdom, intelligence, growth and progress. We also see goodness among people, faith, sincerity, charity, love and the spirit of sacrifice. We also see a lot of virtue and piety. It is wrong to see one side of the coin and not to see the other side. Any philosophy concentrates on one aspect of the creation and denies or ignores the other side is partially true and partial truths are no truth at all.

It is also the fact that the element of good is more in the creation than the element of evil. We all see that there are more people who are healthy than those who are sick. There are more that eat well than those who starve. There are more who lead decent life than those who commit crimes. Goodness is the rule and evil is the exception. Virtue is the norm and sin is the aberration. Generally trees bear fruits, the flowers bloom and winds move smoothly.

But why does Allah allow these exceptions to the rules?

The Qur’an tells Muslims that good, evil and whatever happens in this world happens by Allah’s will. Only Allah knows fully His Will. We finite beings cannot grasp fully His infinite Will and Wisdom. He runs His universe the way He deems fit. The Qur’an tells us that Allah is Wise and everything that Allah does is right, just, good and fair. We must submit and surrender to His Will. The Qur’an has not given us all the details about Allah’s Will, but it has enlightened us with the guidance that is useful and sufficient for us. There are several points that we should keep in our mind to understand this issue:

1. First of all, Allah did not make this world a permanent world. This is a temporary world and everything here has a time limit. When its times comes it will die, come to an end and finish. Neither the good things of this world are forever, nor the bad things eternal. We are here for a short time and we are being tested. Those who will pass this test will find an eternal world that is perfect and permanent. Those who will fail this test shall see the evil consequences of their sins and corruption.
2. Allah has placed a physical law and a moral law in this universe. Allah allows suffering to occur when one or more of these laws are broken. The physical law is based on cause and effect. Sickness comes if one does not take care of one’s health or is exposed to infections. A car accident occurs when one is not alert, or drives in a careless manner, or if the cars are not checked, roads and freeways are not made and kept in right shape, or the traffic laws are not right or not properly enforced. Study of causes and effects is very important to facilitate safeguards. Even here we should keep in mind that Allah often saves us and He does not let us suffer from every negligence. How many times it happens that we are not careful and still we reach safely to our destinations. The way people drive in some cities, it is a miracle that more accidents do not happen and more people do not suffer. Allah says: “(Allah) Most Gracious! It is He who has taught the Qur’an. He has created man: He has taught him speech (and Intelligence). The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed; and the herbs and the trees both (alike) bow in adoration. And the Firmament has He raised high, and He has set up the Balance (of Justice), in order that you may not transgress (due) balance. So establish weight with justice and fall not short in the balance. It is He who has spread out the earth for (His) creatures." (Ar-Rahman:1-10) The way we exceed the measures set by Allah and violate His laws of cause and effect is incredible. It is really the mercy of Allah that we are saved. Strictly speaking, the question should not be why does Allah allow suffering, but how much Allah protects us and saves us all the time in spite of our violations and negligence. The Qur’an says: “If Allah were to punish people according to what they deserve, He would not leave on the back of the (earth) a single living creature: but He gives them respite for a stated Term: when their Term expires, verily Allah has in His sight all His servants." (Fatir:45) But sometimes Allah does punish people because of their violations of His laws whether they are physical or moral. The Qur’an tells us that many nations and communities were destroyed because of their sinful lifestyles: “If they treat thy (mission) as false, so did the Peoples before them (with their Prophets), the People of Noah, and Ad and Thamud. Those of Abraham and Lut; and the Companions of the Madyan people; and Moses was rejected (in the same way). But I granted respite to the Unbelievers, and (only) after that did I punish them: but how (terrible) was my rejection (of them)! How many populations have we destroyed, which were given to wrong-doing! They tumbled down on their roofs. And how many wells are lying idle and neglected, and castles lofty and well-built?" (Al-Hajj: 42-45)
3. Suffering can also be a test and trial for some people. Allah allows some people to suffer in order to test their patience and steadfastness. Even Allah’s Prophets and Messengers were made to suffer. Prophet Ayub is mentioned in the Qur’an as a Prophet who was very patient. Good people sometimes suffer but their sufferings heal others and bring goodness to their communities. People learn lessons from their good examples. Martyrs die for their faith, soldiers give their lives for their nations and this brings liberation and freedom for their people. 4. Allah sometimes allows some people to suffer to test others, how they react to them. When you see a person who is sick, poor and needy, then you are tested by Allah. Allah is there with that suffering person to test your charity and your faith. In a very moving Hadith Qudsi (Divine Hadith) the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: “Allah will say on the Day of Judgment, ‘O son of Adam, I was sick and you did not visit Me.’ He will say, ‘O my Lord, how could I visit You, when you are the Lord of the Worlds.’ Allah will say, ‘Did you not know that my servant so-and-so was sick and you did not visit him? Did you not know that if you had visited him, you would have found me there?’ Allah will say, ‘O son of Adam, I asked you for food and you fed me not.’ He shall say, ‘O my Lord, how could I feed you and you are the Lord of the Worlds?’ And Allah will say, ‘Did you not know that my servant so-and-so was in need of food and you did not feed him? Did you not know that if you had fed him, you would have found that to have been for me?’ ‘O son of Adam, I asked you for water and you did not give me to drink.’ The man shall say, ‘O my Lord, how could I give You water, when You are the Lord of the Worlds?’ Allah will say, ‘My servant so-and-so asked you for water and you did not give him to drink water. Did you not know that if you had given him to drink, you would have found that to have been for Me.’ (Muslim, Hadith no. 4661)
Prophet `Isa (Jesus), peace be upon him, is also reported to have said something similar. (See Matthew 25: 35-45) So to summarize, we can say that sufferings occur to teach us that we must adhere to Allah’s natural and moral laws. It is sometimes to punish those who violate Allah’s natural or moral laws. It is to test our faith in Allah and to test our commitment to human values and charity. Whenever we encounter suffering we should ask ourselves, “Have we broken any law of Allah?” Let us study the cause of the problem and use the corrective methods. “Could it be a punishment?” Let us repent and ask forgiveness and reform our ways. “Could it be a test and trial for us?” Let us work hard to pass this test.
Peace
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-10-2009, 02:49 PM
Post: #8
RE: all religions are false
you have stated that there is more good than evil, and i accept this, but why must there be any evil at all?
why has 'god' let joseph fritzl rape his daughter hundreds of times and have several children with her?
He may have sinned but his daughter and her family were enslaved by this man. They do not deserve this kind of punishment. Nobody does.

why does he allow natural disasters such as the recent earthquake in italy to kill hundreds on innocent people?

And why if your theory of evolution coinciding with creationism would it say in the bible that god created adam and eve? surely there would be thousands of neanderthal humans before these perfect humans came along, according to your view.

And no i'm not some american radicalist or fundamentalist, and i do not know any. (i'm british) i'm simply putting 2+2 together, like many before me and trying to express my views on the world we live in.

I do know a fair amount about some religions, admittedly i don't know a vast amount about others, but i know the general concept and reasonings.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-10-2009, 05:07 PM
Post: #9
RE: all religions are false
Is God responsible for Joseph Fritzl's actions, or is Joseph Fritzl responsible for his own actions? Do you believe we have free will, or, before the dawn of time, do you believe God ordained Joseph Fritzl rape his daughter?

Natural disasters happen because I think God, in creating the universe, set the physical laws in motion and they ran their course without God's interference. I don't think God rolls around in the sky zapping people with lightning bolts or conjuring hurricanes to destroy cities.

As I said earlier, I don't take the story of Genesis literally. I find evolution a far better explanation of how species change over time. Evolution does not attempt to explain the origin of life but rather attempts to account for the genetic changes in organisms over periods of time. I don't know how human beings came to be and frankly, I don't care to know. Again, I think God created the universe - but not everything as it is now all at once in the flicker of an eye. I think evolution better accounts for why we are the way we are today, and yes, ancestral species like the neanderthals would factor into that analysis. I hope that makes sense.

Basically, a lot of my explanations to your initial questions boil down to this - how much control over the physical world are we willing to ascribe to God? Did he create the material world as it exists currently? Does he reside in it? Is he constrained by time? Does he exist in another spiritual reality separate from our own? Is he able to interact with our world? If so, to what extent and in what ways? If we are to believe God's hand can descend from the heavens and intercede in our lives to prevent suffering, then we are forced to assume a lot about the above questions, things we have a hard time answering.

If truth is one, it is not possible for something to be scientifically false and religiously true.

-Baha'u'llah
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2009, 09:54 AM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2009 09:55 AM by blackmamba.)
Post: #10
RE: all religions are false
yes, i understand what you're saying, and we don't know if god does exist whether he has control over the earth, but in my view, if he were to create this world as you describe (in sync with evolution) then surely he wouldn't let destructive occurances happen?
If he had a conscience, it would be one mixed with joy and remorse. Sure there's loads of good in the world, but this gets overshadowed by the bad.
What i'm saying is, if he created the universe then he would have the power to change the bad things on earth, and why not?
You could say he lets it run it's course and we're in control of our own destiny, but he should show his influence in a more precidented way, in my opinion.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  False Prophet and Judgement Day Nothingness888 23 3,554 04-10-2014 04:32 PM
Last Post: shiverleaf15
  The End of the World is a False Implication RedJamaX 7 995 09-10-2012 11:31 AM
Last Post: beyond the horizon
  Why so many people converts to islam if this is a false religion Isa 59 15,666 07-01-2012 04:17 PM
Last Post: Huitaca
  False Prophets theMIDDLEway 25 3,006 10-18-2011 11:40 PM
Last Post: kevlar
  Tribulation, Beast, Antichrist, False Prophet The Word 9 2,436 09-23-2010 02:29 AM
Last Post: may
  the end of false religion is near may 33 4,544 09-21-2010 02:13 AM
Last Post: may



User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)