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good question
12-14-2008, 06:19 AM
Post: #1
good question
Many times I hear people say, "Where is God when bad things happen?"

I notice how God catches heat when things look bad. I've honestly questioned God myself, when I blamed God for not stopping my family from separating. I said "God, if you really loved me, you'd have kept my family together." Only recently have I discovered that I was being immature and trying to keep a grudge against my Lord. Sure my family separated, but from this, I learned how to live independently which is a major step into manhood. Understand that, as a child and an early teen, I depended on family to live, I fooled myself into thinking a close-knit family was absolutely necessary for my well being. God saw that as a flaw, which it really was. I have only recently discovered that flaw and thanked him for revealing it to me in such a dramatic matter, for if my family hadn't separated the way it did, I'd still be a friendless kid afraid to leave the nest.

Sometimes God steps back to let us learn things firsthand. Perhaps he wants us to gain hands-on experience in life instead of relying only on the holy words in the Bible. Is blaming God the best thing to do when bad things happen? Not in my case, and not in any case. When people imply that God should constantly intervene before bad things happen to them, I am reminded of an over-protective parent who can't bear to see their kid messed with at school, tackled in a football game, or riding a bike without training wheels.

"If God loved me, he'd let me get to work on time." Perhaps he stopped your car from starting that morning because a lethal accident was to happen due to some wreckless driving.

"If God loved me, he'd make Katie like me." Perhaps he stopped Katie from talking to you because she's no where close to the dream girl God plans on introducing to you later on.

"If God loved humanity, the holocaust would have never happened." Perhaps he wanted to show everyone what a communist system eventually becomes and how the communist option of government is beyond unacceptable, how genocide is beyond inhumane and how to forgive your enemies on an epic scale.

If you read all of this, thank you for your patience. Discussion is always welcome.
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12-14-2008, 06:57 AM
Post: #2
RE: good question
i see satan is never mentioned,does he not exist?does he ever get any blame?

Good evil salvation
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12-14-2008, 07:38 AM
Post: #3
RE: good question
Okay communists didnt cause the holocausts, fascists did, these are very different to communists. A true Marxist communist system has never been carried out, Russian being barely worthy of the mention of communism, being effectively a totalitarian dictatorship rife with corruption and bureacracy. As to how god could think it neccessary to obliterate so many livlihoods demonstrates rather how he should not be worshipped, this expenditure of life that to teach a lesson he could (and according to u has) demonstrate on a smaller scale and in scripture.
I dont support communism myself, thinking that humans are to falliable to make such a system work but i hate to see a historical misrepresentation as severe as this.

my atheism is just like your religion
only i subtract 1 one more god
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12-14-2008, 11:09 AM
Post: #4
RE: good question
If God changed circumstances to prevent man's inhumanity against man, then there could be no true free will.

Greenville's Church
http://www.newstartchurch.net
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12-14-2008, 06:32 PM
Post: #5
RE: good question
The problem with this line of thinking is how do you explain violence and injustice to children? What about babies that are tortured and killed before they are old enough to even speak? Was god teaching them a lesson? Would a loving god allow cruel serial killers to torture babies just to challenge everyone else's faith?

No - this is convoluted thinking in an attempt to conform facts to a conclusion without thinking critically. The truth is, there is no god - and if there is, I hate him for allowing the cruelty in this world, and I will never worship him. Not that it matters - he doesn't exist anyway.

Rene

descartes1979.blogspot.com

"Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage. Tutelage is the incapacity to use one's own understanding without the guidance of another. Such tutelage is self-imposed if its cause is not lack of intelligence, but rather a lack of determination and courage to use one's intelligence without being guided by another." --Immanuel Kant

JonathanT Wrote:Sometimes God steps back to let us learn things firsthand. Perhaps he wants us to gain hands-on experience in life instead of relying only on the holy words in the Bible. Is blaming God the best thing to do when bad things happen? Not in my case, and not in any case. When people imply that God should constantly intervene before bad things happen to them, I am reminded of an over-protective parent who can't bear to see their kid messed with at school, tackled in a football game, or riding a bike without training wheels.
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12-14-2008, 08:19 PM
Post: #6
RE: good question
athos123 Wrote:Okay communists didnt cause the holocausts, fascists did, these are very different to communists. A true Marxist communist system has never been carried out, Russian being barely worthy of the mention of communism, being effectively a totalitarian dictatorship rife with corruption and bureacracy. As to how god could think it neccessary to obliterate so many livlihoods demonstrates rather how he should not be worshipped, this expenditure of life that to teach a lesson he could (and according to u has) demonstrate on a smaller scale and in scripture.
I dont support communism myself, thinking that humans are to falliable to make such a system work but i hate to see a historical misrepresentation as severe as this.

Severe misrepresentation? All I said was 'communist.' Is there a difference between a Nazi and a communist? If so, I appologize for not knowing.

But let this not cause political digression from this topic.

Descartes1979 Wrote:The problem with this line of thinking is how do you explain violence and injustice to children? What about babies that are tortured and killed before they are old enough to even speak? Was god teaching them a lesson? Would a loving god allow cruel serial killers to torture babies just to challenge everyone else's faith?

You're missing my point. Would a loving God honestly have to intervene everytime something malicious were to happen? If so we wouldn't have freedom. What you're saying is that God would have to save the children as well but everyone, including the children, have free will. A person once said, "life is a game of cards, you must play whatever hand you're dealt." Since God gave everyone freedom, He can't be held responsible for people's mischief. If a serial killer decides to torture a baby, it is the serial killer who shall be rightly punished by God. Personally I believe babies go to heaven when they die since they aren't mature enough to be held accountable for their actions.

Allow me to throw out this example: Since God knows everything, he also knows a baby's future, right? God knew that when baby Hitler grew up, he'd commit one of the worst acts of genocide the world has seen. Why wasn't Hitler tortured or killed as a child? Why did God allow little Adolf to grow up? The answer: free will. We can all grow up and do whatever we want, because God apparently doesn't want us being his mind slaves that require his constant intervention.

What I explained in my post was an example of a reason God allows things to happen, I didn't mean to imply that that was the 'only' reason such things occur. God doesn't sever heads off and say "now let this be a lesson to all!"

Quote:No - this is convoluted thinking in an attempt to conform facts to a conclusion without thinking critically. The truth is, there is no god - and if there is, I hate him for allowing the cruelty in this world, and I will never worship him. Not that it matters - he doesn't exist anyway.

Athos, remember in my Atheist Questions thread when I mentioned 'hostility towards his existance'? This quote here is a good example of what I meant. Even if God did manifest himself to humanity physically, not everyone would jump for joy. The people who reject him now would still be atheists even if he showed himself; this is what I meant by hostility; a literal hatred towards his existance.[/quote]
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12-14-2008, 09:26 PM
Post: #7
RE: good question
JonathanT Wrote:
athos123 Wrote:Okay communists didnt cause the holocausts, fascists did, these are very different to communists. A true Marxist communist system has never been carried out, Russian being barely worthy of the mention of communism, being effectively a totalitarian dictatorship rife with corruption and bureacracy. As to how god could think it neccessary to obliterate so many livlihoods demonstrates rather how he should not be worshipped, this expenditure of life that to teach a lesson he could (and according to u has) demonstrate on a smaller scale and in scripture.
I dont support communism myself, thinking that humans are to falliable to make such a system work but i hate to see a historical misrepresentation as severe as this.

Severe misrepresentation? All I said was 'communist.' Is there a difference between a Nazi and a communist? If so, I appologize for not knowing.

But let this not cause political digression from this topic.

Descartes1979 Wrote:The problem with this line of thinking is how do you explain violence and injustice to children? What about babies that are tortured and killed before they are old enough to even speak? Was god teaching them a lesson? Would a loving god allow cruel serial killers to torture babies just to challenge everyone else's faith?

You're missing my point. Would a loving God honestly have to intervene everytime something malicious were to happen? If so we wouldn't have freedom. What you're saying is that God would have to save the children as well but everyone, including the children, have free will. A person once said, "life is a game of cards, you must play whatever hand you're dealt." Since God gave everyone freedom, He can't be held responsible for people's mischief. If a serial killer decides to torture a baby, it is the serial killer who shall be rightly punished by God. Personally I believe babies go to heaven when they die since they aren't mature enough to be held accountable for their actions.

Allow me to throw out this example: Since God knows everything, he also knows a baby's future, right? God knew that when baby Hitler grew up, he'd commit one of the worst acts of genocide the world has seen. Why wasn't Hitler tortured or killed as a child? Why did God allow little Adolf to grow up? The answer: free will. We can all grow up and do whatever we want, because God apparently doesn't want us being his mind slaves that require his constant intervention.

What I explained in my post was an example of a reason God allows things to happen, I didn't mean to imply that that was the 'only' reason such things occur. God doesn't sever heads off and say "now let this be a lesson to all!"

Quote:No - this is convoluted thinking in an attempt to conform facts to a conclusion without thinking critically. The truth is, there is no god - and if there is, I hate him for allowing the cruelty in this world, and I will never worship him. Not that it matters - he doesn't exist anyway.

Athos, remember in my Atheist Questions thread when I mentioned 'hostility towards his existance'? This quote here is a good example of what I meant. Even if God did manifest himself to humanity physically, not everyone would jump for joy. The people who reject him now would still be atheists even if he showed himself; this is what I meant by hostility; a literal hatred towards his existance.
[/quote]

Nope - you are completely missing the point. My statement was rhetorical. You wouldn't worship your god if you knew he was cruel. The difference between you and me is you think your god is not cruel. I am saying that IF god exists, then he is allowing babies to be tortured for apparently no reason at all. That makes him cruel. The point is, no such god could exist.

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12-15-2008, 12:34 AM
Post: #8
RE: good question
Nazis were anti communist, look at the intense animosity between the supposedly communist stalin and the FASCIST nazi Hitler. Fascism is a system that were in one individual, often helped by a group of chosen ministers, rests absolute power. Marxist communism (not Stalinist communism which is not communism) has every person in the country having a voice in all the affairs of government to decide how the country is run, it also incorporates ideas of equality and shared resources among the people which definitely didnt occur in Nazi Germany, get with it.
As to the argument here anyone who braks his own ten big ones to provide a 'moral lesson' is a bit of a jerk. Using the same justification could u declare hitler moral by him saying that the genocide was a big lesson to prevent a bigger later one and what effect has it really had? There have been other genocides particularly in the Balkans region and cambodia.

my atheism is just like your religion
only i subtract 1 one more god
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