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how were the heavens......
04-03-2010, 07:07 PM
Post: #1
how were the heavens......
created in the first place ?. there is no mention in the bible , only the creation of the earth and the universe . is the bible the second book ? . is there a first book , there creation of the heavens . i believe that the heavens were built BEFORE earth and the universe . has anybody got any answers or ideas......cheers .
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04-08-2010, 02:52 AM
Post: #2
RE: how were the heavens......
(04-03-2010 07:07 PM)hillbilly Wrote:  created in the first place ?. there is no mention in the bible , only the creation of the earth and the universe . is the bible the second book ? . is there a first book , there creation of the heavens . i believe that the heavens were built BEFORE earth and the universe . has anybody got any answers or ideas......cheers .
this is sad , answering my own thread . has anybody got any thoughts on the creation of the heavens . there is nothing written in the bible about the begining of heaven . i know this is not much of a thread , but it would nice to read some thoughts .
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04-08-2010, 05:31 AM (This post was last modified: 04-08-2010 05:35 AM by Annolennar.)
Post: #3
RE: how were the heavens......
Well, a literal reading of Genesis doesn't particularly suggest creation ex nihilo ("out of nothing"). In fact, much of the Biblical creation account occurs through defining boundaries between one thing and another.

The "heavens" as identified in the Genesis creation narrative probably have less to do with "Heaven" as a theological concept than the translation would indicate. Obviously ancient cultures such as the early Hebrews often had associations between the sky and the divine realms, but even with the Genesis account the Hebrew text seems to indicate the "heavens" more as the physical sky rather than a place of divine dwelling.

The Genesis creation narrative, if we try to read it from the perspective of its author, is intended to be anti-mythical (in response to the religious creation accounts of the cultures around them). Though it would be interesting to see how the same author or authors would try to express the same spiritual truths within today's frame of reference, I personally think that they chose not to attempt to give account of the creation of the substance from which the world was formed because they knew it was both beyond the scope of their own knowledge and beyond the scope of what they were trying to convey with their writings.

I don't think there is an "earlier book", beyond what we can observe by looking at stars that are so far away that our image of them is closer in age to the theoretical beginning of the universe. For one, because nobody would have been around to observe it and write it down; and also because even if there were someone who could give an eyewitness account of it, they would have to have had different motivations than the Genesis author.

Edit: Just to add a couple more thoughts. My personal opinion is that in a correct understanding of what the Genesis author was speaking of, though our understanding of and knowledge about it is much greater now, the "heavens" of the Genesis creation account are closer to the vastness of the physical universe than the theological "Heaven" which has more to do with the divine presence of God.

If you should see evident sins or defects, draw out of those thorns the rose; perceiving, moreover, that such apparent sinners may frequently have a good intention, for no one can judge the secrets of the heart of man.
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04-09-2010, 06:06 AM
Post: #4
RE: how were the heavens......
(04-08-2010 05:31 AM)Annolennar Wrote:  Well, a literal reading of Genesis doesn't particularly suggest creation ex nihilo ("out of nothing"). In fact, much of the Biblical creation account occurs through defining boundaries between one thing and another.

The "heavens" as identified in the Genesis creation narrative probably have less to do with "Heaven" as a theological concept than the translation would indicate. Obviously ancient cultures such as the early Hebrews often had associations between the sky and the divine realms, but even with the Genesis account the Hebrew text seems to indicate the "heavens" more as the physical sky rather than a place of divine dwelling.

The Genesis creation narrative, if we try to read it from the perspective of its author, is intended to be anti-mythical (in response to the religious creation accounts of the cultures around them). Though it would be interesting to see how the same author or authors would try to express the same spiritual truths within today's frame of reference, I personally think that they chose not to attempt to give account of the creation of the substance from which the world was formed because they knew it was both beyond the scope of their own knowledge and beyond the scope of what they were trying to convey with their writings.

I don't think there is an "earlier book", beyond what we can observe by looking at stars that are so far away that our image of them is closer in age to the theoretical beginning of the universe. For one, because nobody would have been around to observe it and write it down; and also because even if there were someone who could give an eyewitness account of it, they would have to have had different motivations than the Genesis author.

Edit: Just to add a couple more thoughts. My personal opinion is that in a correct understanding of what the Genesis author was speaking of, though our understanding of and knowledge about it is much greater now, the "heavens" of the Genesis creation account are closer to the vastness of the physical universe than the theological "Heaven" which has more to do with the divine presence of God.
" in the beginning god created the heavens and earth " , after that was written , there is no mention of the heavens being created . i dont know about you , but why have heavens written into the bible if there is not a heaven . did god not take the same route to create earth as he did to create earth .
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04-09-2010, 06:28 AM
Post: #5
RE: how were the heavens......
Well, in Genesis 14:19 it says "..and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth." (I tried to find, in limited time, for the Hebrew word for "heaven" used here to get better meaning, but could not.)

Now, there are of course verses about Heaven, even if there is no mention of it's creation (again, I need to look up the Hebrew for Genesis to see if the sky is being referenced or heaven is, when the English word "heaven" is mentioned), that doesn't necessarily mean anything, being that the bible is not an all-inclusive history book. God may have just concentrated on what we would know on Earth. Is there a point you were wanting to make about this or was it a curious question?
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04-09-2010, 07:24 AM
Post: #6
RE: how were the heavens......
Perhaps off topic (if so ignore, it's the references to Genisis that provoke the question).
Why is there no mention of dinosaurs in Genisis?

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04-09-2010, 07:57 AM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2010 08:14 AM by hillbilly.)
Post: #7
RE: how were the heavens......
(04-09-2010 07:24 AM)kevlar Wrote:  Perhaps off topic (if so ignore, it's the references to Genisis that provoke the question).
Why is there no mention of dinosaurs in Genisis?
not really off topic kevlar . he does mention the dinosours , on the 5th and 6th day . he just does not write the word dinosours , thats all .
(04-09-2010 06:28 AM)Christian_Chris Wrote:  Well, in Genesis 14:19 it says "..and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth." (I tried to find, in limited time, for the Hebrew word for "heaven" used here to get better meaning, but could not.)

Now, there are of course verses about Heaven, even if there is no mention of it's creation (again, I need to look up the Hebrew for Genesis to see if the sky is being referenced or heaven is, when the English word "heaven" is mentioned), that doesn't necessarily mean anything, being that the bible is not an all-inclusive history book. God may have just concentrated on what we would know on Earth. Is there a point you were wanting to make about this or was it a curious question?
well , the bible allways came across as the 2nd part of creation/evolution ( 2nd book ). IF heaven was created before the earth and the universe ( that is what is written ), would there not be a book to explane the creation of the heaven(s) , a 1st book . i often get the feeling that we are in the dark about the heavens , like we have only been given half the information . also does god not ( written in genisis ) use parts of heaven to create earth , or in the same manor . maybe i am reading into this the wrong way .
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04-09-2010, 08:15 AM
Post: #8
RE: how were the heavens......
billy, if there is no mention of dinosaurs, how can dinosaurs be mentioned?

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04-09-2010, 09:01 AM
Post: #9
RE: how were the heavens......
(04-09-2010 08:15 AM)kevlar Wrote:  billy, if there is no mention of dinosaurs, how can dinosaurs be mentioned?
ah!! but kevlar , he does mention , wild beasts , birds , reptiles , sea creatures and livestock . would you not agree , that!! - wild beasts , birds , reptiles , sea creatures - could be prehistoric or the animals of today . after all a t-rex is a walking lizard/reptile , a teradactyl is still a bird only without feathers . we are the ones that put these species in to categorys and catalouged them .
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04-09-2010, 09:14 AM
Post: #10
RE: how were the heavens......
But surely billy it should have been prokaryotes, single celled organisms.

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