Poll: Can you really and truly be certain there is a god?
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human construct
01-12-2010, 01:51 PM
Post: #1
Wink human construct
I am an atheist because I know for a fact there is NO GOD. Ever since the dawn of man have humans needed to invent something (a god) to explain what we never knew. Times are changing and people will hopefully evolve enough to realize that Santa, the Easter Bunny and god do not exist; they are a human construct invented to satisfy the human mind in areas where it either does not have knowledge or where it either is too ignorant to understand. Using god as an explanation for everything is a cop-out and a poor and weak excuse to explain life itself. Don't be so ignorant people to common sense solutions and ways of life where a "god" doesn't need to exist! It's not only impossible for god to exist but silly, childish, foolish, close-minded and ignorant. For all of you indoctrinated souls out there who, since childhood have been told there was a god, evolve; grow up and realize it's a fairy tale just like Santa and the tooth fairy to keep you in line and behaving properly out of fear of not getting what you wanted as a child; out of fear of burning in hell and out of fear of never seeing your loved ones again after death. Snakes never spoke; a man never lived in a big fish; and the earth is not only about 6000 or 7000 years old because if that were so we would have no diamonds and oil because they take millions of years to create!; time, temperature and pressure people. If earth were only 7000 years old we would have no oil, no cars, and no fuels for anything to power our way of life! Close your bible, Koran or whatever fictitious books you read and open a science book. The human race will never evolve if we can’t open our minds to common sense and rationalization; we will devolve into a primitive status if we rely on mythical figures to run our country and lives.
We once thought the world was flat, that was proven wrong; we once believed the weather was god either happy or angry, that was proven ridiculous; we once believed in witches and burned women for being one if they could swim, for if they couldn’t they would drown, die, and not be witches (they would die either way), that was proven wrong; we once believed in the church dictating our lives in the church run years and got punished for believing otherwise.
Now silly people believe in Jesus and Mary on a piece of toast and on glass windows and on cheetos and on irons and trees!!! The church is a pedophiles “heaven” and its money hungry. Preachers steal from people’s ignorance and people fall for it. Talking to yourself will accomplish nothing! (PRAY FOR WORLD PEACE BECAUSE IT WON’T HAPPEN!) Why would a “god” heed to your needs anyway while our world is filled with war and death, starvation and genocide; what makes your one pray so priority???
There is no god, nobody can ever prove there is a god (I can prove there isn’t a god just because I can prove there is no Santa), and until we realize this we will continue to dumb down in intelligence as we and our leaders continue to base our way of living off a make believe deity!

I wish for anyone to prove me wrong and put me in my place because I guarantee nobody reading this will be able to do so. Nobody has powers outside mine and nobody has seen god or spoken to him or has even heard him to to you; if you have seen god or spoke to him or heard him you probably are off your medication so go ahead... prove me wrong. Thats my challenge to whoever reads this and disagrees with my rational and logical way of thinking.
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01-12-2010, 02:05 PM
Post: #2
RE: human construct
Welcome to the forum.

I voted no as I'm pretty much an atheist.

However, how do you know FOR A FACT that there is no God? Whilst there is no scientific evidence for the existence of God, there is also no definite proof that there is not.
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01-12-2010, 02:30 PM
Post: #3
RE: human construct
Zag's got a point. You cannot prove a universal negative. I can say with certainty that there is no god as worshiped by mainstream Christians, or mainstream Muslims, or fundamentalists of either sect, because those particular gods contradict fact and are logically inconsistent. But the idea that there is no god at all? Impossible to prove.

That said, the far and away most likely situation is that there is no god, and using the inability of science to prove a universal negative as some sort of excuse for worship falls flat. So there is a chance of there being a god, but the chance is so remote that it does not justify your faith.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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01-12-2010, 04:37 PM
Post: #4
RE: human construct
This was slightly rude...in fact, very rude, suggesting that all theists are illogical, and need psychotropic drugs.

That said -- A) Not everyone is Christian and B) Not everyone has the same idea of deities. I'm a Vodouisant, and Vodou believes in one deity, which is pandeistic. Can I prove god? No. Do I want to? Not particularly, Vodou believes it is wrong to try and convert someone.

However, from a purely scientific point of view, I'd point out the 'Big Wow' theory, put forward by astrophysicist Dr. Paola Zizzi, in her paper Emergent Consciousness: From the Early Universe to Our Mind.Which theorizes that the universe achieved the threshold of computational complexity sufficient for the emergence of consciousness during cosmic inflation.

So really, I ask you, how do you prove there is no pandeistic deity? Since it's obviously so easy for you, as easy as proving there was no Santa.
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01-12-2010, 07:43 PM
Post: #5
RE: human construct
Bad, Clementine. As soon as you say "How do you prove there is no" anything, you lose. The concept of not being able to prove a universal negative is not a valid logical argument. Rather, the question you ask is "What are the evidences for a pandeistic deity?" If there are any evidences, look at them, analyze them, and judge the merits of a theory of a pandeistic being. If there is no evidence, then a healthy amount of skepticism must be maintained, and indeed there is no real difference between the validity of such a speculation and the validity of Santa.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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01-12-2010, 08:06 PM
Post: #6
RE: human construct
(01-12-2010 07:43 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  Bad, Clementine. As soon as you say "How do you prove there is no" anything, you lose. The concept of not being able to prove a universal negative is not a valid logical argument. Rather, the question you ask is "What are the evidences for a pandeistic deity?" If there are any evidences, look at them, analyze them, and judge the merits of a theory of a pandeistic being. If there is no evidence, then a healthy amount of skepticism must be maintained, and indeed there is no real difference between the validity of such a speculation and the validity of Santa.

I know that you can't prove a negative, GT. I was going off of this statement:

Quote:I can prove there isn’t a god just because I can prove there is no Santa

I was challenging him to disprove a pandeistic deity in the way he said he could. I wanted to see him try. You'll note I cited a scientific paper and a theory, and yes, I do believe skepticism must be maintained, until one has enough evidence personally, to believe one way or the other.
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01-12-2010, 08:10 PM
Post: #7
RE: human construct
Ah, okay. Well I already replied to him about that.

You do need to be careful, though. Get specific enough about your version of god, and you may very well be able to disprove them. If your version of god requires you to contradict reality, you can prove that god false. Like the idea of a god who created the universe, all of earth, animals, vegetables, and man in seven literal days.

But a pandeistic deity? Nope, can't prove that wrong.

I'm back baby! Thanks for everyone who sent me PMs asking what had happened to me.
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01-12-2010, 08:19 PM
Post: #8
RE: human construct
(01-12-2010 08:10 PM)GTseng3 Wrote:  Ah, okay. Well I already replied to him about that.

You do need to be careful, though. Get specific enough about your version of god, and you may very well be able to disprove them. If your version of god requires you to contradict reality, you can prove that god false. Like the idea of a god who created the universe, all of earth, animals, vegetables, and man in seven literal days.

But a pandeistic deity? Nope, can't prove that wrong.

Which is basically my point. Wink I just gave him a theory and a source, and gave him a chance to disprove it as one would disprove Santa.

I don't mind you calling me out, though, GT, someone has to keep the logic flowing in this place.
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01-13-2010, 12:03 PM (This post was last modified: 01-13-2010 12:34 PM by ThereIsNoGod.)
Post: #9
RE: human construct
Yes Clementine, my point is you need to be logical, but believing in some "god" who hears you talk to yourself and believing in a "man" who built our entire planet is NOT LOGICAL; therefore if you believe in god you are illogical and irrational. Something has to create something so what create god? He can’t just appear. Don’t say because he is all knowing and powerful too because that’s a pure cop-out and you’re veering from the possible to the impossible and childish when you say stuff like that.

As for Adam and Eve I can prove that’s B.S. also. Two people (Adam and Eve) don’t just appear; two humans can’t be born as an adult, they need to come from somewhere! I really don’t know if Adam and Eve appeared as babies or adults, but either way, two children or two adults don’t just appear! Also, Adam and Eve are portrayed as white… looks like they are white because the white man didn’t want the two main characters in his story to be black.

People came from Africa and the first people where black; this was scientifically proven; therefore even if there was an Adam and Even, which there wasn’t, they would have been black. It’s called evolution; we broke off from the ape/monkey species, whatever you want to call them, and evolved to what we are now today. It’s really that simple and if you say god did everything without any proof and just what you think might be true, you are most definitely being irrational and illogical and quite ridiculous.

I said, "I can prove there isn’t a god just because I can prove there is no Santa."
Okay, so what you are saying is if you don't think I can prove god doesn't exist, Santa, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy could be real also?; they are all fictitious creatures conjured up by the human imagination so by telling me I can't prove god isn't real you're saying there may be a man with a sleigh and flying reindeer who travel to all the good children's houses and slide down the chimney all in one night... Come on... really? If there is a god here is how you can prove it to yourself. Pray to end all wars, all starvation and genocide. If he really is that powerful like a god should be, your pray will be answered and there’s your proof. But I guarantee nothing will come of it; just wasting your breath.

The bible is the biggest sham in human history and following it, living by it, and believing it is wasting your life. I’ll say this… If there REALLY IS A GOD I beg of him to drop me dead and enlighten me in “heaven.” Having a burnt piece of toast, a reflection on a piece of glass, a Cheeto which looks like a cross, or an old shroud that all coincidentally look like the image of a man with a beard is NOT PROOF and is stupid and silly. Try not to laugh when you see a man or women worshipping a piece of toast or praying to a piece of glass!
(01-12-2010 04:37 PM)Clementine Wrote:  This was slightly rude...in fact, very rude, suggesting that all theists are illogical, and need psychotropic drugs.

That said -- A) Not everyone is Christian and B) Not everyone has the same idea of deities. I'm a Vodouisant, and Vodou believes in one deity, which is pandeistic. Can I prove god? No. Do I want to? Not particularly, Vodou believes it is wrong to try and convert someone.

However, from a purely scientific point of view, I'd point out the 'Big Wow' theory, put forward by astrophysicist Dr. Paola Zizzi, in her paper Emergent Consciousness: From the Early Universe to Our Mind.Which theorizes that the universe achieved the threshold of computational complexity sufficient for the emergence of consciousness during cosmic inflation.

So really, I ask you, how do you prove there is no pandeistic deity? Since it's obviously so easy for you, as easy as proving there was no Santa.


I don’t think of it as rude but I think of it as obvious. If people say that they hear voices in their heads or “see things,” they may get medicated and confined to a hospital for the mentally insane. They are put on medications. I find it quite sufficient to state that people (theists) who see and hear things need some sort of medication to tamper with and fix their mental state of mind and I find it obvious and realistic to call a person with such mental irrationalities illogical and irrational. Not all theists need drugs, but the people who see god, hear god and speak to god are loony and too say otherwise is also being loony.

Children have imaginary friends to fill an immature gap in their developing minds; to gain a sense of security and comfortability in oneself. When a mature adult whether it be man or women still has those imaginary friends and can see, hear, and talk to them (god), I find it quite disturbing and immature; something a good crazy pill may fix. Wouldn’t you?

ThereIsNoGod
Also Cementine, if thats really your true picture "god" did a great job
Just a quick word of advice to anyone who believes in the supernatural. We do not live in the middle ages anymore and the Catholic church is not in charge like it once was. We as people have evolved from being super religious during the pre-enlightenment, to becoming more rational and open to the obvious from the enlightenment forward. Soon I would bet, religion will become taboo as science kicks religious thought in the [censored] and disproves much of what is believed religulously today. Science and technology will become mainstream and will put religious thought on the backburner as more and more logic, reasoning and proof about our world is discovered. Our minds will become more attuned to what can be proven as we evolve and we will ask ourselves, wtf were we thinking?... A talking snake, a man living inside a giant fish, a single man who can hear me speak to myself!

Church and religion are corrupting human thought, imagination and development. Church mass is an endless money pit; where do you think your money goes??? IT GOES TO EMPOWER THE CHURCHES AND INTO THE PREACHERS BANK ACCOUNT. It enables the church to grow and become more indoctrinating to the masses of irrational believers who are gullible enough to throw down a dollar in the passed around pot.
Whoever voted yes or will vote yes to the poll question, I really want to see your proof.
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01-13-2010, 04:56 PM
Post: #10
RE: human construct
You go off on tangents enough, don't you?

A) I didn't say anything about a creation. Did you even bother to look at the theory and paper I cited? Again, technically, scientifically, "god" could scientifically appear creationless. "It is scientifically possible for the universe to reach the threshold of computational complexity sufficient for the emergence of consciousness during the period of cosmic inflation." (Quote, Dr. Paola Zizzi, astrophysicist)
B) Did I say anything about the omnis? No? Then why are you bringing it up?
C) I didn't say anything about Adam and Eve either -- why are you bringing them up?
D) Dude, I'm Haitian, and a historian, I have no problem with people coming from Africa. I also don't see what that has to do with this conversation.
E) I said nothing against evolution or how we became human.
F) You CAN'T disprove a pandeistic god. You keep saying the same things. There is no way to disprove a pandeistic god. Do you even know what pandeism is?
G) Did I say anything about the Bible? I made a point to say I'm not a Christian, did you even pay attention to that?
H) Thanks, I think, for the compliment, back-handed as it was.
I) As far as the supernatural, never believe in it without proof that proves it for you, personally.
J) You're very Christian-centric, you know that?
K) You really fail as a debater, you didn't address a single thing I said, aside from your tangent about medication.
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