Did anyone see the discussion in the House Judiciary Committee on whether or not the Bible endorses harsh illegal immigration laws?
You can find the link here:
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0715/house-d...migration/
Here's my question for everyone? How should someone who is seriously trying to follow the teachings of Christ view the issue of harsh illegal immigration laws? I'm talking about laws that criminalize illegal immigrants, not the drug-smuggling criminals, but the ones who cross the border for survival. If you've been to Mexico, then you've seen how the poor are living and you know what I mean. For many who can't afford the $5,000-$10,000 in legal fees to legally immigrate, illegal immigration is the only option for providing a better life for their families. Yes, it's an illegal option, but it is the best option for many.
I wonder how literally we should take "love your neighbor as yourself"? Sure, Jesus suggested it as one of the greatest commandements, but is it out-dated? Maybe Jesus didn't know that there would be a Christian nation called the U.S.A. that would one day have problems with poor neighbors sneaking into their lands for work?
Did it only apply to "neighbors" in a literal sense...people living in a house next to you? Or did it mean "neighbors" in a broader sense...meaning all fellow humans on the planet Earth?
Did Jesus really expect us to give everything up and follow such radical commandments...to the extent of threatening our own economy? Is the American economy important to Jesus?
Answers please. It's a confusing issue.
Who is the neighbor in the case of illegal immigration? Is it the poor Mexican peasant who is suffering because of his corrupt and inept Mexican government? Or is it the unskilled American citizen who can't find a job because illegal immigrants are undercutting the wage he needs to earn for his family?
It's difficult to take Jesus' instructions about our own, personal, face-to-face dealings with the concrete individuals we encounter in our daily lives, and try to apply them to matters of public policy--especially when those on different sides of the debate all want the same outcome. Everyone wants prosperity and equity for all, of course, but there are honest disagreements regarding how to best attain this commonly desired outcome.
Exactly! There are so many ways we can read the words of Jesus? What is the solution? Should we try to follow his commandments literally?
If Jesus' instructions are perfect and the truth, then only good would come from using them as a base for public policy, right? If we used Jesus' teachings as a base for public policy, and then the public policy was a disaster...what would this mean about the truth of the Bible?
(07-16-2010 09:07 AM)Vesuvius Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly! There are so many ways we can read the words of Jesus? What is the solution? Should we try to follow his commandments literally?
The two most important commands are to love God and to love your neighbor. These are not
specific commands that provide easy "literal" answers in complex situations. They are guidelines, rather than specific, literal "legalese."
(07-16-2010 09:07 AM)Vesuvius Wrote: [ -> ]If Jesus' instructions are perfect and the truth, then only good would come from using them as a base for public policy, right?
Nope. Bad people can take good laws and twist them for evil purposes. That was precisely the complaint Jesus had against some of the Jewish religious leaders 2000 years ago, and the same thing happens today.
(07-16-2010 09:07 AM)Vesuvius Wrote: [ -> ]If we used Jesus' teachings as a base for public policy, and then the public policy was a disaster...what would this mean about the truth of the Bible?
There will be a time when Jesus' teachings will be the base for all public policy. That time will be the "Second Coming of Jesus." Until then, we will continue to live in a world that has become imperfect by our own choice. We will continue to see everything as if through a dim and hazy glass window.
Hi Sterophonic
What is the difference between a God-given "guideline" and a God-given "command"? How do I know which parts of Jesus' teachings are guidelines that I can loosely follow...depending on the cultural or political situation of where I live, or which ones are commandments that I should follow devoutly?
Regards
Vesuvius
It seems like they should stay over their side and be happy to be exploited by those who are better off. Those who are less better off will always be in a capitalist system...........so bad luck for them. The rich can get away with employing illegals at sub-standard wages..........it is the way of capitalism. Perhaps all the poor in Africa should find a border that improves their lot?
(07-16-2010 10:39 AM)Vesuvius Wrote: [ -> ]What is the difference between a God-given "guideline" and a God-given "command"? How do I know which parts of Jesus' teachings are guidelines that I can loosely follow...depending on the cultural or political situation of where I live, or which ones are commandments that I should follow devoutly?
If "Love God with all your heart" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" were "commands," how would that be different than if they were "guidelines"? Either way, you're still left with the challenging task of using your brain to make tough decisions in specific situations.
It looks to me as if you are looking for a "perfect system," a "perfect structure," an airtight list of infallible rules that can be automatically or mechanistically applied to each and every situation. It sounds to me as though you'd rather be a robot than a person.
I have a different thought process to illegal immigrants. I live in Australia and we have our fair share of boat people coming from Sri Lanka, Afghanistan and other areas. So here we have people who want to jump the queue ahead of people who want to come here legally and are in the same position as the illegals. The only difference is that the illegals have money to pay their way to the smugglers. This holds up the process for people who are legitimate refugees because we spend more time processing the illegals with cash.
I prefer to have compassion on the legal refugees.
I don't want to be a robot...I just want to follow what Christ teaches. I live and work outside of the States right now and people are always asking me what I think about the immigration issue. I like to respond to questions as a Christian...not as a democrat or republican or any other worldy standards, so I've been thinking about the issue.
(07-19-2010 12:45 PM)Vesuvius Wrote: [ -> ]...people are always asking me what I think about the immigration issue. I like to respond to questions as a Christian...
One thing the "immigration issue" says to me is that the United States, England, Australia, and other countries that seem to be desirable destinations for immigrants must be doing at least
something right--or else people wouldn't want to come here. In my mind, one of the things that these "destination" countries seem to have in common is a respect for the rule of law. People know what the laws are, and the laws apply to everyone equally (at least in theory). By contrast, in many of the countries from which people would like to emmigrate, the laws are arbitrary and unevenly enforced.
Maybe, rather than just dropping all our restrictions on immigration (can any country do that and still remain a country?) we should think about ways that we can help other countries adopt whatever is good about our system of government, and adapt it for use in their own countries? Unfortunately, this sort of thing takes time, and it also raises questions of "imperialism" (at least in the minds of the people who run the governments in the countries from which people would like to escape).
Anyway, I liked Bush's "guest worker" program that would have allowed Mexicans and others to register to work here legally. I don't see how we can just grant instant US citizenship (with voting rights) to people who don't understand our policial and civic systems, and I don't see how we can keep taxing the legal residents here so that we can provide full-scale services to people who entered the country illegally. But if we need workers, and if others need the income, this seems like a good solution for all.