Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

itsnotme · (This post was last modified: 02-04-2010 10:59 PM by itsnotme.)

(02-04-2010 06:04 PM)Stereophonic Wrote:
(02-04-2010 10:13 AM)itsnotme Wrote: ...Ecclesiastes 3:19...

The first part of Ecclesiastes is written from the point of view of mere human reasoning; that is, it represents the best wisdom available for those who do not enjoy a relationship with the God of the Bible. You have to wait until the very end (Eccl. 12:13-14) before you get the Biblical "stamp" on what the "preacher" (writer of Ecclesiastes) says. Christians do not take the bulk of Ecclesiastes as giving God's final or true perspective any more than they take the words of Job's "comforters" to be portray God's views.

See 1 Samuel 28:11-19 for a true experience of the afterlife.

This is 1 Samuel from the Darby bible.

1 Samuel 28:4-19 (Darby Translation)

4And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and encamped in Shunem; and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they encamped in Gilboa.

5And when Saul saw the camp of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.

6And Saul inquired of Jehovah; but Jehovah did not answer him, either by dreams, or by Urim, or by prophets.

7Then said Saul to his servants, Seek me a woman that has a spirit of Python, that I may go to her and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman who has a spirit of Python at En-dor.

8And Saul disguised himself, and put on other garments, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, I pray thee, divine to me by the spirit of Python, and bring me [him] up whom I shall name to thee.

9And the woman said to him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul has done, how he has cut off the necromancers and the soothsayers out of the land; and why layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

10And Saul swore unto her by Jehovah, saying, [As] Jehovah liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.

11Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up to thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

12And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? Even thou art Saul.

13And the king said to her, Be not afraid; but what didst thou see? And the woman said to Saul, I saw a god ascending out of the earth.

14And he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man comes up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

15And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul said, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answers me no more, neither by prophets nor by dreams; therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known to me what I shall do.

16And Samuel said, Why then dost thou inquire of me, seeing Jehovah is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

17And Jehovah has done for himself as he spoke by me; and Jehovah has rent the kingdom out of thy hand, and given it to thy neighbour, to David.

18Because thou didst not hearken to the voice of Jehovah, and didst not execute his fierce anger upon Amalek, therefore has Jehovah done this thing to thee this day.

19And Jehovah will also give Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines; and to-morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me; the army of Israel also will Jehovah give into the hand of the Philistines.

God had already abandoned him to a disapproved mental state, becasue he turned to spiritism, a transgression worthy of death. (Le 20:6) Disguised, Saul went to see a spirit medium at En-dor, requesting that she bring up the dead Samuel for him. From her description of what she saw, Saul concluded that it was Samuel. However, it should be noted that God had not answered Saul’s inquiries and obviously did not do so by means of a practice condemned by His law as warranting the death penalty. (Le 20:27) Therefore, what the woman said would have been of demonic origin.

So death is still death. No thoughts, no knowledge, or anything, when you die. And the use of spiritism, talking to the 'dead', fortune tellers, all that sort of thing, is condemned, in the bible. Satan will play any trick he can to get people to turn aside from God.

biomystic · (This post was last modified: 02-04-2010 11:19 PM by biomystic.)

Sorry folks, but I will take the tens of thousands of n.d.e. accounts over Bible accounts every time. You see, what those who do not credit n.d.e. as valid experiences do not understand is that there is no drug or brain chemical experience that is capable of giving the same set of hallucinations to people. It just doesn't happen anymore than groups of people having the same dreams. We all dream differently, of different things, yet in n.d.e.'s there are common themes, e.g. the Tunnel, the Golden Light, a Being of Light, relatives and friends who have gone before, and that never happens with psychoactive chemicals yet it happens with astonishing regularity with people reporting near-death-experiences.

Also, for the few people who get to experience the world as "maya" or illusion, we know that material reality is the illusion with death of the material body part and parcel of the illusory state of material Creation.
The Gospel of Humanity gives actually a very logical future for humanity in which humanity evolves into God who has the ability to resurrect anyone and everyone from past existence. Ancients thought like Job that human beings were lowly worms in comparison with God but Jesus Christ reestablished the direct relationship between humanity and God with his Son of Man identification and doctrines of the resurrection of the soul to a World to Come.

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."--Jn. 14:12

itsnotme · 02-04-2010, 11:31 PM

(02-04-2010 11:16 PM)biomystic Wrote: Sorry folks, but I will take the tens of thousands of n.d.e. accounts over Bible accounts every time. You see, what those who do not credit n.d.e. as valid experiences do not understand is that there is no drug or brain chemical experience that is capable of giving the same set of hallucinations to people. It just doesn't happen anymore than groups of people having the same dreams. We all dream differently, of different things, yet in n.d.e.'s there are common themes, e.g. the Tunnel, the Golden Light, a Being of Light, relatives and friends who have gone before, and that never happens with psychoactive chemicals yet it happens with astonishing regularity with people reporting near-death-experiences.

Also, for the few people who get to experience the world as "maya" or illusion, we know that material reality is the illusion with death of the material body part and parcel of the illusory state of material Creation.
The Gospel of Humanity gives actually a very logical future for humanity in which humanity evolves into God who has the ability to resurrect anyone and everyone from past existence. Ancients thought like Job that human beings were lowly worms in comparison with God but Jesus Christ reestablished the direct relationship between humanity and God with his Son of Man identification and doctrines of the resurrection of the soul to a World to Come.

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."--Jn. 14:12

Did you notice the Jesus is going to his Father. I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say with this scripture., in John?

Parousia · 02-04-2010, 11:56 PM

(02-04-2010 11:16 PM)biomystic Wrote: Sorry folks, but I will take the tens of thousands of n.d.e. accounts over Bible accounts every time. You see, what those who do not credit n.d.e. as valid experiences do not understand is that there is no drug or brain chemical experience that is capable of giving the same set of hallucinations to people.

Many years ago, I read some research on religious experiences mediated by psychedelic drugs. It seemed that people experienced the kind of 'God' they expected based on their prior beliefs or inclinations. It is not the drugs that provide the content of the hallucinations. They just mediate the hallucinatory state.

Here is some commentary that discusses the different varieties of NDEs (no they are not all the same) and also reports similar mental states in unusual but not near death circumstances and even the inducement of such states by artificial means.

biomystic · 02-05-2010, 10:49 AM

(02-04-2010 11:56 PM)Parousia Wrote:
(02-04-2010 11:16 PM)biomystic Wrote: Sorry folks, but I will take the tens of thousands of n.d.e. accounts over Bible accounts every time. You see, what those who do not credit n.d.e. as valid experiences do not understand is that there is no drug or brain chemical experience that is capable of giving the same set of hallucinations to people.

Many years ago, I read some research on religious experiences mediated by psychedelic drugs. It seemed that people experienced the kind of 'God' they expected based on their prior beliefs or inclinations. It is not the drugs that provide the content of the hallucinations. They just mediate the hallucinatory state.

Here is some commentary that discusses the different varieties of NDEs (no they are not all the same) and also reports similar mental states in unusual but not near death circumstances and even the inducement of such states by artificial means.

Parousia, I am a full veteran of the psychedelic '60's. I have had personal experiences with quite a few different types of psychoactive drugs. And I have had quite a few visionary religious experiences as well. The main reasons I give n.d.e.s validity are three:

1. I do not know of any chemical ingested or already present in the human brain that can elicit the same set of basic themes encountered in n.d.e.s. Yes, there is culturally conditioned variety to the expression of these themes but still they show up with enough regularity to give n.d.e.s their universal identification.

2. N.d.e.s defy the body's will to survive and fight death. Fighting against dying when death threatens existence is what living creatures do to survive. It is a survival instinct. Now why would evolution of our species include a brain reaction to death in which death "loses its sting", becomes in fact, a wonderous experience of transition to another "world", another consciousness, whatever, something not unpleasant, at least in most n.d.e. experiences. N.d.e. counter the natural survival instinct that informs us death is to be avoided if at all possible.

3. I have had what seems to be a quite rare experience which is spending three days seeing the world as illusion, as a Play, and one scripted from somewhere wherein each of us, like Shakespeare said, become actors in a grand Play called Life in Creation, a play in which every single part of the sets and scripted dialogue has been "written" beforehand and we just follow our lines and cues unknowingly. This special consciousness is really at the root of my belief in God and a spiritual reality underlying the material reality we see and deal with, not knowing it's already a done deal. We as mortals, don't know the future so we think to ourselves we have "free will" but we don't. We each of us are acting out our scripted roles and our souls "wake up" in a new reality after we die physically.

Hidden in the Bible is this truth:

Psalm 139:16

"Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them."

Parousia · 02-05-2010, 11:20 AM

(02-05-2010 10:49 AM)biomystic Wrote: [quote='Parousia' pid='20184' dateline='1265345766']
[quote='biomystic' pid='20178' dateline='1265343366']

Parousia, I am a full veteran of the psychedelic '60's. I have had personal experiences with quite a few different types of psychoactive drugs. And I have had quite a few visionary religious experiences as well. The main reasons I give n.d.e.s validity are three:
...
3. I have had what seems to be a quite rare experience which is spending three days seeing the world as illusion, as a Play, and one scripted from somewhere wherein each of us, like Shakespeare said, become actors in a grand Play called Life in Creation, a play in which every single part of the sets and scripted dialogue has been "written" beforehand and we just follow our lines and cues unknowingly. This special consciousness is really at the root of my belief in God and a spiritual reality underlying the material reality we see and deal with, not knowing it's already a done deal. We as mortals, don't know the future so we think to ourselves we have "free will" but we don't. We each of us are acting out our scripted roles and our souls "wake up" in a new reality after we die physically.

Having promised a long and detailed response elsewhere, I regret not being able to respond as fully as your answer deserves. I will just mention in passing that 'back in the day', my three days of seeing the world as illusion was mediated by 5 mg of STP. Tongue

After that I stuck with good old Genesis 1:29-30

"Then God said, "Look! I have given you every seed-bearing plant throughout the earth and all the fruit trees for your food. And I have given every green plant as food for all the wild animals, the birds in the sky, and the small animals that scurry along the ground—everything that has life.” And that is what happened." Wink

biomystic · 02-05-2010, 07:18 PM

(02-05-2010 11:20 AM)Parousia Wrote:
(02-05-2010 10:49 AM)biomystic Wrote: [quote='Parousia' pid='20184' dateline='1265345766']
[quote='biomystic' pid='20178' dateline='1265343366']

Parousia, I am a full veteran of the psychedelic '60's. I have had personal experiences with quite a few different types of psychoactive drugs. And I have had quite a few visionary religious experiences as well. The main reasons I give n.d.e.s validity are three:
...
3. I have had what seems to be a quite rare experience which is spending three days seeing the world as illusion, as a Play, and one scripted from somewhere wherein each of us, like Shakespeare said, become actors in a grand Play called Life in Creation, a play in which every single part of the sets and scripted dialogue has been "written" beforehand and we just follow our lines and cues unknowingly. This special consciousness is really at the root of my belief in God and a spiritual reality underlying the material reality we see and deal with, not knowing it's already a done deal. We as mortals, don't know the future so we think to ourselves we have "free will" but we don't. We each of us are acting out our scripted roles and our souls "wake up" in a new reality after we die physically.

Having promised a long and detailed response elsewhere, I regret not being able to respond as fully as your answer deserves. I will just mention in passing that 'back in the day', my three days of seeing the world as illusion was mediated by 5 mg of STP.

After that I stuck with good old Genesis 1:29-30

"Then God said, "Look! I have given you every seed-bearing plant throughout the earth and all the fruit trees for your food. And I have given every green plant as food for all the wild animals, the birds in the sky, and the small animals that scurry along the ground—everything that has life.” And that is what happened."

Ah, so you eat marijuana, eh? Wink

It is good mind food. Weirdly, after 49 years of marijuana useage with it becoming my only psychoactive drug after experimental days in the '60's with other stronger psychedelics (although I never tried STP) my tolerance for pot has greatly diminished, the reverse of what one would expect. I ate marijuana for years but now days the old high is far too strong for me and I'm such a lite weight toker these days, I might have to turn in my hippy merit badge.

itsnotme · 02-05-2010, 10:56 PM

Quote:"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."--Jn. 14:12

biomystic, I was wondering what you meant by using this scripture.

biomystic · 02-05-2010, 11:09 PM

(02-05-2010 10:56 PM)itsnotme Wrote:
Quote:"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."--Jn. 14:12
biomystic, I was wondering what you meant by using this scripture.

It has to do with the previously hidden meaning of the Son of Man tradition. The Gospel of Humanity tells how Jesus Christ could not explain to his ancient audience of his day how humanity would eventually evolve into God at the "End of Days" because the ancients were convinced man was a lowly worm (see Job) and of no consequence compared to God. Jesus reestablished the direct relationship between God and humanity but couldn't get the idea across about how things would change in the future to show logical cause why humankind does have this potential, e.g. going from horse and buggies to space ships within a hundred years time, e.g. bringing the power of the sun down to earth, e.g. walking on the moon, all of these would be unbelievable to the ancient mind as possible by human beings, only gods could do such things. So Jesus took on that role as representing all of humanity as a God-Man. But now we can understand what he meant. He had to go to his Father in order to establish his Godhood status as a Son of Man and Son of God.

itsnotme · 02-05-2010, 11:36 PM

Quote:(NKJV) John 14:12 " Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater [works] than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

All this scripture means is that the ones that do the same work as him, will do greater than he did, becasue this work of preaching would be world wide. Where as he just started the preaching work and it wasn't utill after his death did the work go to the gentiles.
This scriptures in Acts tells us this.
(NKJV) Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."